Did Robert DeNiro and Al Pacino REALLY share screen time in Heat?

[FaustBos]

Well considering they are both in the film, you might think so, but i wonder. I've always heard that this film marked the only time these two actors shared screen time together. But in watching this film multiple times, the last time I paid very close attention to every scene that they were in together. There wasn't a single shot of the two of them where you could see both their faces. Furthermore, each shared scene, could and probably was filmed in a long take, and cut together to appear as dialog as is often done. So I wonder, was the actor whose face you didnt see, Al, Robert, or a stand in?

Has anyone ever read any press that would suggest this? It's really bugging me. I'm going to watch these scenes again tonight, just because Im a sick sorry sod :-)

Jim

[Mr Flibble]

You've either got too much time on your hands, or you're joking ;)

[Tob]

Thats an internet common theory but there are photos of Mann, Pacino and De Niro together at once so i can't see why they would bother using stand ins.

[FaustBos]

OH I had not every heard mention of this before. It was just something that struck me while watching this a few weeks ago.

I guess the reason i'm leaning towards a deep conspiracy (yeah, joking here), is that, I'm i sure both actors had other committments (hey, i've watched enough behind the scenes special features) and its entirely possible that that they were not both available for shooting on the same schedule.

I just found it odd that the director chose not to for instance have the two sit side by side when they had coffee, as he did with DeNiro and female character. Every scene had that same style of filming. Could be nothing but hey, who knows.

I figured someone on here must have a website devoted to the subject :-)

Jim

[Gary Couzens]

The coffee-shop scene was filmed with two cameras. Not having both men in the same shot was intended to emphasise their separation from each other - a two-shot would have emphasised closeness.

[Morton]

Talking of De Niro's double - Joe Manuella - In the Metro today it states he's just been arrested for passing himself of as the real De Niro for the past few years!! He managed to get loads of freebie's, discounts and women to sleep with him! :p

Apparently, the real De Niro was confronted by a woman who accused him of "luring her into bed and then dumping her".:D

That was the last straw so they had him arrested! (Manuella, not De Niro!)

[Mr. J]

I´ve also seen a picture on the set of that "coffee-scene", and they both were on the set.
But that is true, that they don´t appear in the SAME picture together. If you watch these scenes (especially the last, "De Niro dies"-scene), it is obvious that it is intentionall that they are NOT in the same picture together. So I´ll say that it is what the director (Mann) wanted..
And don´t tell me that they are together in the same picture, ´cos they are not..

[FaustBos]

Originally posted by Gary Couzens
The coffee-shop scene was filmed with two cameras. Not having both men in the same shot was intended to emphasise their separation from each other - a two-shot would have emphasised closeness. OH, thats interesting, I had just the opposite opinion of that scene. I felt that they had a lot in common. Oh, well, I wont lose sleep over it. Could simply be that the director had his vision for the scene in mind, and not what the lack of seeing the two faces in the same shot would imply. But it still seems a bit fishy to me.

ADDED LATER:
I meant to also say that it seemed a waste to not utilize that rare moment in film history. I guess I find it hard to believe that this was a decision that Moore made for artistic reasons. Perhaps if it was any other two actors.

I should also like to add, I really like this movie alot.

[adamvbarker]

There are two sorts of actor. Those who stand there (even off-camera) to feed the lines when it's the other guy's close-up, and those who go back to their trailer as soon as their own close up is done. Big hollywood stars often fall into the latter category.

This scene would have been shot in one direction (eg. DeNiro - wideshot, medium then close-up) then the camera would have been turned around to shoot the other direction (i.e. Pacino - wideshot, medium then close-up). This turning round takes quite a while - usually the set needs to be redressed and re-lit.

If all you see in either direction is the back of the other guy's head or some shoulder etc, then it's quite conceivable that it's a stand-in. And by the time you get to do the close up, the other actor isn't seen at all, so might easily not be there at all.

This really isn' that uncommon, and it wouldn't involve any great conspiracy or distaste between the actors (though maybe a little one-upmanship as to who gets to finish and go home first!)

Actors who hang around to deliver their off-screen lines to their colleagues are either not powerful enough to insist that they go home, or are considered especially commited team players (or are British and don't know any better)

[FaustBos]

Well, the conspiracy comment was tongue and cheek, but you make my point nicely.

[Ruskins]

HELLO !!!!!!

The final shot has them side by side holding hands whilst De Niro's character dies ! :rolleyes:

[Lenny Nero]

Originally posted by Ruskins
HELLO !!!!!!

The final shot has them side by side holding hands whilst De Niro's character dies ! :rolleyes:

Should have used spoilers there.
Yes, that's one, and two, they did share screen time because if there was only one star, you would see him all the time, that's what is meant by sharing the screen time, not sharing the SPACE on the screen.

There was a shot of them sitting opposite of each other in a coffee shop at the table, both faces visible sharing the screen time.
Maybe you were watching a pan&scam version, then you wouldn't see that shot of course.

[pulp]

i totally agree. personally i dont think the film lived up to the hype, then again there was a lot of hype. the coffee scene though was the best in the whole movie,regardless of whether the two actors were actually there. to have them sitting next to each other would have totally destroyed it. I agree that they had a lot in common but that shot really enforced the confrontational and one upmanship aspects. they were two sides of the same person, both excellent at what they do and supremely confident but the main thing I believe is the respect they have for each other. thats why they had to be shot that way and I for one am relieved Mann did it .

[FaustBos]

Originally posted by Ruskins
HELLO !!!!!!

The final shot has them side by side holding hands whilst De Niro's character dies ! :rolleyes: But you never see both their faces at the same time, at least not in the version I have, which I believe is an anamorphic OAR.

[FaustBos]

Originally posted by pulp
i totally agree. personally i dont think the film lived up to the hype, then again there was a lot of hype. the coffee scene though was the best in the whole movie,regardless of whether the two actors were actually there. to have them sitting next to each other would have totally destroyed it. I agree that they had a lot in common but that shot really enforced the confrontational and one upmanship aspects. they were two sides of the same person, both excellent at what they do and supremely confident but the main thing I believe is the respect they have for each other. thats why they had to be shot that way and I for one am relieved Mann did it . Well, i'll assume for the moment, they were both there for the filming of the scene at the same time :-) But Personally i feel the sceen would have worked better the other way.

I missed all the hype for this one actually. When I watched it I had no idea what the movie was. Was just sitting on the shelve and I put it in.

I did love this movie. Its not so often in a film that you can identify so strongly with the wrong doers. I have to watch it again soon. I felt that mann was trying to say that there is very little difference between the two characters (And the other cops and the "bad guys" as well).

Anyway, I think having missed the hype, I went into this film not expecting anything so I was quite pleased.

Jim

[FaustBos]

Originally posted by Lenny Nero


Yes, that's one, and two, they did share screen time because if there was only one star, you would see him all the time, that's what is meant by sharing the screen time, not sharing the SPACE on the screen.
Well thats one way of looking at it of course.

[StuBruise]

Originally posted by Morton

Apparently, the real De Niro was confronted by a woman who accused him of "luring her into bed and then dumping her".:D

That was the last straw so they had him arrested! (Manuella, not De Niro!)

I heard that De Niro hired Manuella to go to a party as him, only the car that turned up for him had been instructed to take him to the police station instead :D

~~stu

[Mr Flibble]

Bumping this up to say 'forgot how great this film is' and I remembered this thread yesterday afternoon when I was at home, decided to watch it to see if you do ever see them both in the same shot, face-on as it were, and you don't :)

A cracking film, not seen it for a couple of years, and well worth a re-watch - if only to see President Palmer from 24 as a getaway driver :thumbs:

[Sputnik]

lol nice find - I thought I remembered reading that post about Joe Manuella, and the Lenny Nero post was a bit suss ;)

We showed Heat at our student cinema just the other week, and I was watching out for this too. Fantastic film, I love it.

[Planescape]

The reason for having them sit opposite each is simply because by doing that you draw a line between them and this has them facing off against each other as one is the Policeman and the other the thief. And by having this line no matter how simliar they are you always remember where they each stand.

[danielzavitz]

http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0113277/Ss/0113277/1-1.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0113277

maybe they photoshopped it ;)

[Munas]

The scene where Pacino asks De Niro if wants to go for a coffee- you can clearly see both their faces.

The 2 Disc Special Edition DVD due out later this year should clear it up.

Michael Mann with Al & Bobby (http://ffmedia.ign.com/filmforce/image/heat-mann-pacino-deniro.jpg)

[Rohail]

DeNiro has a stubble type beard in the film, in that picture he doesn't :confused:

[Mr Flibble]

Originally posted by Munas
The scene where Pacino asks De Niro if wants to go for a coffee- you can clearly see both their faces.

The 2 Disc Special Edition DVD due out later this year should clear it up.

Michael Mann with Al & Bobby (http://ffmedia.ign.com/filmforce/image/heat-mann-pacino-deniro.jpg)

Well, you do, kind of technically - but what you see if De Nero's reflection in the wing mirror of his car, not him and Pacino, together face on or anything at any point of the film, every shot of them when they are in the same scene is either 'over the shoulder' so you only see the back of their heads, or the camera cuts between the two of them, so one minute you focus on de niro, the other pacino :)

Watch it again, you'll see what I mean :)

[Andrew70]

Originally posted by Mr Flibble
Well, you do, kind of technically - but what you see if De Nero's reflection in the wing mirror of his car, not him and Pacino, together face on or anything at any point of the film, every shot of them when they are in the same scene is either 'over the shoulder' so you only see the back of their heads, or the camera cuts between the two of them, so one minute you focus on de niro, the other pacino :)

Watch it again, you'll see what I mean :)
I watched it last night and the scene referred to wasn't a wing mirror shot.
The camera was sitting beside DeNiro in the car looking out at Pacino. The focal point was on Pacino leaving DeNiro in soft focus but you definitely saw both faces in the same shot.

Talking of screen time, I watched the recent documentary on The Towering Inferno and it said that McQueen and Newman insisted on exactly the same number of screen minutes because they were to have equal billing.
They got around the problem of who's name appeared first on the opening credits by placing the second revealed name higher on the screen.

A.

[Munas]

Originally posted by Andrew70
I watched it last night and the scene referred to wasn't a wing mirror shot.
The camera was sitting beside DeNiro in the car looking out at Pacino. The focal point was on Pacino leaving DeNiro in soft focus but you definitely saw both faces in the same shot.

A.

Yeah, thats the scene I was talking about.