How bad is Sky without RGB?

[rwoolst]

I'm about to get Sky Digital but will not be able to connect to the TV via RGB scart (AV1). As a big DVD user I want to keep AV1 for maximum quality on the DVD player - I know I could daisy-chain it through the digibox but this will loose the widescreen signal (WSS) which automatically changes the aspect ratio as needed on DVDs (the digibox scart sockets do not support this signal according to the manual for the Panasonic which I've borrowed from a friend).

So....my question is if I route the digibox through AV2 (non-RGB) how much worse will the composite picture and sky menu system be. Can I live with it, will it be as good as terrestrial broadcast pictures? I won't be a big Sky user, just occasional use.

If not, what are the alternatives. I understand the Grundig digibox has s-video out so this may be a solution? This must be a common problem, anybody solved it?

Thanks in advance,
Rich

[Ron Hill]

It's OK using composite but if you're used to watching Sky with RGB you will notice the drop in quality. I was in this same situation with a single scart DVD player for a while and I daisychained through the SKY box. I noticed the lack of WSS but that's what the size button on the TV remote is for.

In my book, quality has precedence over convenience.

I'm getting a twin scart DVD player soon so i'll swap the two round and regain the convenience of WSS.

[rwoolst]

Thanks, only 1 scart on my DVD player I'm afraid, but could do as suggested and manually change the screen via TV. However, would be concerned about potential signal loss as a result of passing through another box - having paid for an expensive scart lead to connect DVD to TV this doesn't seem like the ideal solution....

If I manage to get the Grundig digibox will this solve all my problems, i.e. use the s-video output + phonos to connect to AV2 which is s-video compat. S-video is nearly as good as RGB isn't it? Has anyone achieved this using this box?

Alternatively I've heard that you can buy a box to convert RGB from scart to s-video (where? howmuch?) which presumably might work for the other digiboxes without the direct s-video connection. Again, info from anyone who has gone down this route would be helpful.

[Ron Hill]

I too had the "quality loss" concern with daisy chaining so I experimented with direct connect and daisy chaining (though my Panasonic Sky box). To be honest, I couldn't see any difference.

The only thing to watch is crappy scart leads, badly shielded aerial feeds and power cables.

[megabyte]

Originally posted by Ron Hill:

I too had the "quality loss" concern with daisy chaining so I experimented with direct connect and daisy chaining (though my Panasonic Sky box). To be honest, I couldn't see any difference.

I would tend to agree with this-I have all video signals routed through my Yamaha AV amp.This is so I can make use of the onscreen display whilst changing parameters in the sound field.
I have noticed NO change in picture quality by doing this, and it solves the problem of daisychaining scarts.
So I guess I am recommending that you get an AV amp! ( if you don't have one)

If you have a good AV amp-Then you will be relying on it to provide you with the top quality sound and not the TV-So daisychaining wont affect your sound and definitely not your picture.

I spent a very enjoyable day Saturday going through several Sound rooms in Dublin-listening to many combinations .

I have came to the conclusion that Sound is the most important thing to get right in your home cinema.
Unless you are spending 1000's of pounds on your TV, I could not make out the difference-except for size.

Regards
Conn

[Mozza]

I know it's a pain in arse but why don't you just swap the scarts over when you want to watch either your DVD or satellite?

I used to have to do this but the amount of time I spent watching Sky to the amount watching DVD didn't make it too much of a hassle.

[homerjhandley]

Agree!

buy a decent scart box. Route this to the front/side of your TV.

Then just swap around the plugs depending on source (sky, dvd, console).

Much easier than fiddling @ the rear of the set.

[Edith]

Originally posted by rwoolst
Alternatively I've heard that you can buy a box to convert RGB from scart to s-video (where? howmuch?) which presumably might work for the other digiboxes without the direct s-video connection. Again, info from anyone who has gone down this route would be helpful.

RGB--S-Vid converter
Lektropacks online (http://www.lektropacks.co.uk/)
£50

I've never used one but i believe they've had good reviews.

[kcxdev]

I've read here that the scart box argos sells is quite good as well, very similar to the BTECH one

[rwoolst]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I'm not sure about the scart boxes as they probably don't pass RGB (need x2 - 1 for DVD player, 1 for digibox). If anyone knows different.....

Hopefully if I can get the Grundig digibox (not my first choice of make but nevermind) should be able to use s-video, otherwise may consider a convertor such as that from Lektropacks.

Just why don't they make all scarts RGB compat?!! :confused:

Cheers,
Rich

[jambo]

Hassle Sky for a Pace box. If you insist on the box and tell them it's integral to your tv/equipment then they will get you one. They certainly did for me. With that your sky box will have two scart inputs, have the dvd coming into the rgb of the tv via the sky box. You might be able to see the difference in picture quality using equipment testing the picture.

[RobDickinson]

If its any help I use a b-tech manual 2-1 scart switch on my RGB scart socket with dvd & sky.

My dvd is 5m away from tv/sky so passthrough wasnt mutch of an option.

It works well pic quality wise.

[rwoolst]

Originally posted by RobDickinson
If its any help I use a b-tech manual 2-1 scart switch on my RGB scart socket with dvd & sky.

Does this box therefore input and output RGB signal on all 3 sockets?

[RobDickinson]

It certainly does - but they make a range of switches , I'd have to check to see whick one it was.

It is fully wired though, black , 3 scarts, 1 two way switch, no integrated scart cable.

[macmatt]

I had a similar dilemma when I got my DVD player, but you've nothing to worry about - simply plug the DVD player into the digibox and the digibox into AV1 on your telly - you will get RGB and it will automatically switch widescreen pictures - unless you're not using fully wired Scart leads.

So all this worry and discussion for nothing!:)

[rwoolst]

Will be good if it does - but according to the Panasonic digibox manual I've borrowed the WSS signal is not supported through the scart lead.

[NicolaUK]

I had Sky+ installed last week, the installer insisted hooking up the box via RGB to the tv/AV1 and so switching the dvd to tv/AV2.

As soon as he did this if you try to watch a dvd all you get is a rolling Sky picture - unless you power down the digibox. So I've now reverted to dvd to tv/AV1 and Sky to tv/AV2.

In all honesty, I've had Sky digital for 18months and I can't tell the difference between RGB/PAL. Do you guys find it *that* noticeable?

[NicolaUK]

And to add to that my silver Panasonic box never used to switch widescreen but the new Pace Sky+ box does?!

[rwoolst]

Originally posted by NicolaUK
So I've now reverted to dvd to tv/AV1 and Sky to tv/AV2.


Yep, that is to be my plan to start with, unless the installer turns up with a Grundig box in which case I should have the option of s-video (which my AV2 supports). I just don't want to compromise the DVD picture in any way, and I'm used to the convenience of the WSS switching. I'll be using my DVD player much more than watching Sky.

I've been told that the Sky menu system is much improved via RGB.

[CLH]

To see the difference put the box into RBG mode through the RGB input of your telly. When the box is on RGB is inputted. To see the difference press TV on your SKY remote and the picture should change to composite. Press SKY and it changes back to RGB. I think the difference is quite marked especially with text and the weather on sky active. I have a Panasonic box.

[NicolaUK]

I can kinda see a difference with text but at the end of the day I don't spend my evenings watching Teletext !!

I still can't see the advantage of watching normal broadcasting in RGB :cool:

[MartinC]

Originally posted by rwoolst
Will be good if it does - but according to the Panasonic digibox manual I've borrowed the WSS signal is not supported through the scart lead.

think they all say this...
but it does work on Panasonics passing the WSS signal.

My panasonic digibox has always worked fine doing ws switching...

I have both my dvd player & digibox doing wss properly...,
both connected to AV1...(dvd has 2 scarts but only composite on the pass-thru one).

I've never noticed a problem with picture quality either... so link through the digibox if thats a possibility.

[CLH]

Agreed, my Panasonic does autoswitching as well. It passes through my player in RGB.

[rwoolst]

Just checking the manual for my DVD Player last night and the scart socket can output either RGB or s-video through a configurable on-screen menu setting.

Is s-video more or less as good as RGB? Any opinions? If it is I could move the DVD to AV2 (s-video) assuming this doesn't compromise the picture quality, leaving AV1 (RGB) for Sky/VCR.

[JonnyO]

Originally posted by NicolaUK
I had Sky+ installed last week, the installer insisted hooking up the box via RGB to the tv/AV1 and so switching the dvd to tv/AV2.

As soon as he did this if you try to watch a dvd all you get is a rolling Sky picture - unless you power down the digibox. So I've now reverted to dvd to tv/AV1 and Sky to tv/AV2.

In all honesty, I've had Sky digital for 18months and I can't tell the difference between RGB/PAL. Do you guys find it *that* noticeable?

I do!
BTW, the 'rolling picture' problem is due to your cheap TV. It is not buffering the RGB signal correctly from the sky box. You could always just press TV on the sky remote which puts the sky box into PAL/composite mode which would stop the 'rolling picture'.

Your best bet with all of this is to buy a dvd player with two scarts that passes RGB. Then plug the DVD into TV AV1 and pass the sky box picture through the dvd player.

[NicolaUK]

Originally posted by JonnyO


I do!
BTW, the 'rolling picture' problem is due to your cheap TV.

Your best bet with all of this is to buy a dvd player with two scarts that passes RGB. Then plug the DVD into TV AV1 and pass the sky box picture through the dvd player.

Hmmm, I don't call a 32" Hitachi W/S @ £1000 cheap! ;) I have a Sony 525 DVD with 2 scarts, haven't checked if it'll do RGB pass through - would need to buy longer scart cables due to location of different items.

[JonnyO]

Originally posted by NicolaUK


Hmmm, I don't call a 32" Hitachi W/S @ £1000 cheap! ;)

Blimey!
I do apologise!
Thats the first 'expensive TV I've ever seen have this problem. I haven't seen any Sony's, Panasonics or JVC's exhibit this behaviour...
I won't bother getting a Hitachi when I replace mine then...
(BTW, my cheap Thomson does have this problem :( )

[NicolaUK]

Apology accepted JonnyO ;)

Actually after thinking about it I'll have to check that the installer plugged the scarts in all the way, the cable has been knocked loose before resulting in a rolling picture - so don't knock Hitachi just yet :)

The installer blamed in on 'crossover' but the explanation got a bit techy and I started losing the will to live!

I've got a second box installed upstairs and that's on RGB but still, honestly I don't see the noticeable difference!

[yee_har]

Originally posted by rwoolst
Just checking the manual for my DVD Player last night and the scart socket can output either RGB or s-video through a configurable on-screen menu setting.

Is s-video more or less as good as RGB? Any opinions? If it is I could move the DVD to AV2 (s-video) assuming this doesn't compromise the picture quality, leaving AV1 (RGB) for Sky/VCR.

I would say so - yes.

This is what I've just done.

I sat there switching from DVD/RGB/AV1 to DVD/SVHS/AV2 and I genuinely preferred the latter (there was some talk of it maybe being due to my scart lead on AV1 but....)

You'd def. have the WSS issue then though....no?

[rwoolst]

Originally posted by yee_har


I would say so - yes.

This is what I've just done.

I sat there switching from DVD/RGB/AV1 to DVD/SVHS/AV2 and I genuinely preferred the latter (there was some talk of it maybe being due to my scart lead on AV1 but....)

You'd def. have the WSS issue then though....no?

I'm gonna try this out tonight and see how it looks - hopefully scart will still pass WSS to AV2. From what I've now read on RGB and s-video it appears that technically speaking RGB is marginally better than s-video but from a personal perspective some people have said that they prefer the s-video picture to the RGB one. At the end of the day the difference is likely to be minimal, isn't it?

[LauraLC]

Originally posted by NicolaUK


Hmmm, I don't call a 32" Hitachi W/S @ £1000 cheap! ;) I have a Sony 525 DVD with 2 scarts, haven't checked if it'll do RGB pass through - would need to buy longer scart cables due to location of different items.

My girlfriends parents set is a WS Hitachi (not sure which model but bought in the last 6months) and it has this problem. Same problem on my Toshiba 28" set, no probs with the 32" WS Sony though :)

I always find a good way to see the difference between the PAL and RGB modes on Sky is with the Program Guide, a massive difference in sharpness and colour purity.

laura.