View Full Version : MIDWAY - History re-written (again)?
Confucius
03-11-2001, 11:27
Taken from the sleeve liner production notes:
"Six months into World War II, the historic naval battle of Midway (June 3 - 6, 1942)......." :rolleyes:
I thought we'd left this sort of nonsense behind with U571. :brickwall
hitch_fan
03-11-2001, 11:39
There's nothing wrong with that as WWII started for the Americans in December 41. Just like WWII started for us Dutch in May 1940 adn not September 1939.
1 - 0 for hitch_fan who knows his history !
. . . :D . . .
Confucius
03-11-2001, 11:47
Thankyou so much for the history lesson :rolleyes: , but IMHO you're wrong. Just because certain countries didn't join in the fun 'til well after the party had started doesn't excuse the wording used.
Oh, and Americans were (unnofficially) involved before '41.
Confucius
03-11-2001, 11:49
Originally posted by Hendrik
1 - 0 for hitch_fan who knows his history !
. . . :D . . .
Your lot didn't even get involved! (officially)
hitch_fan
03-11-2001, 11:56
Originally posted by Confucius
Your lot didn't even get involved!
Eh, we did get involved. For five days in Europe ... which amongst other reasons gave the British Army time to get their asses back to Dunkirk and from there to home sweet home. A bit longer against the Japanese in the Dutch East Indies. Not to speak of the thousands of Dutch who volunteered for the British Army, RAF, Royal Navy, Canadian armed forces, US armed forces ... or the thousands of dutch merchantmen who lost their lives on the Atlantic trying to get supplies to your British ... or the Dutch "Prinses Irene Brigade" which took part in the Battle Of Normandy ...
Strange ... for centuries it has been British policy to let others fight their battles on the European continent and still they complain ...
Confucius
03-11-2001, 11:57
Originally posted by hitch_fan
Eh, we did get involved. For five days in Europe ... which amongst other reasons gave the British Army time to get their asses back to Dunkirk and from there to home sweet home. A bit longer against the Japanese in the Dutch East Indies. Not to speak of the thousands of Dutch who volunteered for the British Army, RAF, Royal Navy, Canadian armed forces, US armed forces ... or the thousands of dutch merchantmen who lost their lives on the Atlantic trying to get supplies to your British ... or the Dutch "Prinses Irene Brigade" which took part in the Battle Of Normandy ...
Strange ... for centuries it has been British policy to let others fight their battles on the European continent and still they complain ...
I quoted Hendrik, who is Swiss :rolleyes:
Or at least lives there according to his profile.
hitch_fan
03-11-2001, 11:59
Originally posted by Confucius
I quoted Hendrik, who is Swiss :rolleyes:
Or at least lives their according to his profile.
I think he is Dutch ...
Confucius
03-11-2001, 12:04
Originally posted by hitch_fan
I think he is Dutch ...
Perhaps it would be better to put that in his profile then. Lets ask him:
"Hendrik, if indeed you are Dutch could you put it in your profile please? Thanks very much. It's just that when one sees 'location' quoted as Switzerland it's only natural to assume one hails from that part of the world you see. Although cross border work experience is certainly more widespread than in the past, it is not by any means 'the norm', ie: one cannot make that assumption."
'hitch fan', perhaps you should edit your last but one post seeing as you rather misunderstood what I posted?
...ahh... FYI I was born in the Dutch East Indies (Indonesia to you), and remember only too well that the big garden party my mother had planned for my eighth birthday had to be canceled since the Japanese unthinkingly started the war just one day before that big event (by bombing Pearl Harbor on December 7th, 1941, remember)... up to that point (my) life was good but it has never been the same since...
...anyway, no matter how you slice it, 'officially' the start of WW 2 for the Americans (and for the Dutch East Indies) was indeed December 1941, not before!
. . . :o . . .
Confucius
03-11-2001, 12:08
Originally posted by Hendrik
...ahh... FYI I was born in the Dutch East Indies (Indonesia to you), and remember only too well that the big garden party my mother had planned for my eighth birthday had to be canceled since the Japanese unthinkingly started the war just one day before that big event (by bombing Pearl Harbor on December 7th, 1941, remember)... up to that point (my) life was good but it has never been the same since...
...anyway, no matter how you slice it, 'officially' the start of WW 2 for the Americans (and for the Dutch East Indies) was indeed December 1941, not before!
. . . :o . . .
:brickwall
...and, oh, no I'm not Swiss (heaven forfend!), although I've been living in Switzerland since June 1967... actually, I'm a 'naturalized' American citizen, so there!
. . . :D . . .
Confucius: ...perhaps you should re-read the blurb on the Midway disc:
"Six months into World War II, the historic naval battle of Midway (June 3 - 6, 1942)......."
...now, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor occurred on December 7th 1941 - effectively drawing the USA into the war... add six months and which year does that put you in? Right! 1942! and there you are...
. . . :D . . .
Originally posted by Hendrik
Confucius: ...perhaps you should re-read the blurb on the Midway disc:
"Six months into World War II, the historic naval battle of Midway (June 3 - 6, 1942)......."
...now, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor occurred on December 7th 1941 - effectively drawing the USA into the war... add six months and which year does that put you in? Right! 1942! and there you are...
. . . :D . . .
Well shouldn't they have re-worded it "6 months after the Americans entered World War II......"?
Makes it sound like a minor scuffle until the Americans entered where it then changed into A WORLD WAR.
This is one of the most amusing threads to appear in the DVD Forums since it began back in November 2000
...hahaha! indeed!...
"...Makes it sound like a minor scuffle until the Americans entered where it then changed into A WORLD WAR."
...exactly!... taken as a whole, the dreadful thing went down in history as the oddly named "World War 2" (remember, until the advent of 'WW2', what we now refer to as "WW1" was not called that, but "The Great War" or "La grande guerre", or even, God help us, "The Last War"!) ...and, yes, it did indeed start as, certainly not a minor scuffle, but just as certainly a European war - which is one reason why 'Americans' in general were not eager to join in...
...may I remind you that - at that particular time in history - Americans 'consisted' in very large part of Italians, Irish, Germans, Russians, etc. who had at one time fled 'the old country' precisely because they wanted nothing more to do with that rather messy place...
FYI: a "WAR" as such - and this includes any war - does not 'officially' - or even unofficially - start until one party does something (un)to another party, or until one party 'declares war' on another party - ergo: nobody declared war on the USA or did anything (un)to the USA until the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor ... ergo: for the Americans WW2 started on December 7th 1941...
...of course, you're perfectly welcome to continue banging your head against a brick wall, regardles...
. . . (signed) Your Friendly Historical Nincompoop . . .
I agree and disagree with the definitions given. Yes, as far as Americans may be concerned, the war began for them on 7th December 1941. However, World War II is acknowledged as having started on September 1st 1939 when the Germans invaded Poland.
Therefore the text in the Midway disc is historically incorrect from a world perspective, but as already said, this wouldn't be the first time US cinema has chosen a 'selective' interpretation of world history to suit their own ends.
That said, you should be concentrating on watching a fine movie, and not worrying how the American movie industry interprets history.
Ben Martin
03-11-2001, 23:42
i totally disagree with the definition as printed on the midway disc and as cleverly defended by Hendrik in excess detail. it's been an interesting thread reading all the various historical facts/anecdotes .... but no matter how much you dress it up in intellectual comment there is no getting away from the fact that "world war II" (as specifically referred to, whether by accident or otherwise, on the midway disc) began, as cervaro rightly points out (and everyone else knows), on september 1st 1939.
i think Tob has it right when he talks about the wording of the sleeve. if it had read "Six months into US involvement in World War II ..." then it would have been acceptable.
Originally posted by Confucius
Your lot didn't even get involved! (officially)
indeed, and in reality switzerland was 'neutral' by the grace of nazi germany and 'unofficially' they certainly weren't slow in handing over jews to the nazis.
Originally posted by Ben Martin
indeed, and in reality switzerland was 'neutral' by the grace of nazi germany and 'unofficially' they certainly weren't slow in handing over jews to the nazis.
And keeping their money too for over five decades. :mad:
Seriously though, having visited modern day Switzerland a few times, I'd love to live there purely and simply for the open countryside, mountains, scenery, etc. Sure they come over as isolationists for not being a part of the EU, but then they don't get screwed by the EU for a whole load of money to support the farmers, special interest groups, etc.
Anyway, this has gone off-topic. Go watch the movie and forget the DVD insert.
hitch_fan
04-11-2001, 09:20
Originally posted by Confucius
'hitch fan', perhaps you should edit your last but one post seeing as you rather misunderstood what I posted?
I was in a bit of a hurry and misinterpreted your post. I know Hendrik posts on a Dutch forum so I jumped to conclusions. Sorry about that.
come on someone say that ww2 started in 1918 ;-)
Afterall without the balls up of a resolution to the "last war" we wouldn't have had the ww2 that we ended up with!
(ok ok origin and start aren't the same thing, but frankly "world war" implies to me the whole world is at it, and that didn't happen in 1939 now did it?)
The americans are just doing the same as everyone else (being -centric to their own history) its just unfortunate that they can ram it down our throat so much ;-(
Originally posted by Confucius
Taken from the sleeve liner production notes:
"Six months into World War II, the historic naval battle of Midway (June 3 - 6, 1942)......." :rolleyes:
Shouldn't that be seven months as the Pearl Harbour attack was right at the start or December 41?
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