Hitchcock Query [Archive] - Forums @ The Digital Fix

gtp4all

30-10-2001, 21:04

Where should I buy Torn Curtain, Frenzy, Family Plot and Topaz from?

I believe that Frenzy is cut in the UK and that Torn Curtain & Topaz are the wrong ratios in R2/4? However, all is ok in R1. Family plot is ok in R1/2/4.

Is this correct? Please advise

Michael Brooke

30-10-2001, 21:10

The only bit you've got wrong is that Frenzy is uncut in the UK - but as far as I can see R1 is the way to go purely for aspect ratio reasons.

DavidMcGowan

30-10-2001, 21:32

Originally posted by Michael Brooke
The only bit you've got wrong is that Frenzy is uncut in the UK - but as far as I can see R1 is the way to go purely for aspect ratio reasons.

According to this this (http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Reviews/Reviews.asp?ReviewID=567) review, Frenzy is presented in the correct ratio for R2/4, and therefore the UK version is equal to the R1.

DeadKenny

30-10-2001, 21:40

Does anyone have a definitive list of which regions have the best versions of Hitchock films? It's getting really confusing because there are so many arround, especially in R1 with multiple versions of the same films and so many boxed sets plus Criterion special editions.

Hendrik

30-10-2001, 21:47

"...Frenzy is uncut in the UK..."

...interesting!... I saw Frenzy during its first run in a London cinema just off Piccadilly Square...

...when -a few years later- I saw the movie again, on German TV, what struck me was that the scene where Barry Foster strangles Barbara Leigh-Hunt lasted much longer and showed the 'process' in much more detail (making it difficult to watch, actually) than the one shown in the cinema...

...ahh... sweet memories of my youf...

. . . :o . . .

Michael Brooke

30-10-2001, 21:57

A few fairly unarguable region recommendations:

The 39 Steps - Criterion (best transfer and tons of extras)
The Lady Vanishes - Criterion (OK transfer plus commentary)
Notorious - Criterion (best transfer and tons of extras)
Vertigo - R2 (identical specs to R1 plus anamorphic transfer)
North By Northwest - R1 (has Hitchcock-presented trailer not on R2 disc)
Psycho - R1 has tons of extras (and I mean tons), R2 is anamorphic.
The Birds - R1, as R2 is allegedly cropped to 4:3
Marnie - R1, as R2 is allegedly cropped to 4:3

As far as I can see, Saboteur, Shadow of a Doubt, Rope, Strangers On A Train, Rear Window, The Trouble With Harry, The Man Who Knew Too Much are pretty much identical regardless of region.

DavidMcGowan

30-10-2001, 22:03

EDIT: Beaten to it by Michael Brooke! Oh well, I'll leave my comments here anyway, even though they mostly state the same thing.

Here's my own take on the relative costs and benefits of certain Hitchcock DVDs:

The Trouble With Harry, Rope, Shadow of a Doubt, The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956 version), Rear Window, Saboteur & Family Plot - R2 fundamentally equal to the R1 editions (all are presented in original aspect ratio, and are anamorphic where appropriate).

Frenzy - Equal to R1 edition (UK version is now uncut and anamorphic).

The Birds, Topaz, Torn Curtain, Marnie - The R1 versions are superior - although R2 has the same special features, the picture is presented in 4:3 when the films originally had a widescreen aspect ratio.

Psycho - UNDECIDED: R2 anamorphic, but lacks the special features of the non-anamorphic R1.

Vertigo - R2 is anamorphic, whereas R1 is not. Features are equal.

North By Northwest - Both R1 and R2 are absolutely excellent, but R1 slightly tips the scales in its favour by including the full-length Hitchcock trailer - the R2 only includes a clip of this in the documentary. Both are anamorphic and have a Dolby 5.1 remix, and a number of excellent features.

Notorious, Rebecca & Spellbound - Criterion editions best for special features, but 'The Film Collection' UK releases are passable (and certainly a lot cheaper) if you just want the movie itself.

The 39 Steps - Criterion version superior for extra features, but Carlton's R2 versions are considerably cheaper - available originally as a standalone release (£9.99), a special edition (containing documentary on Hitchcock's early films, but by no means a rival of the Criterion edition), and a new double pack with the earlier version of The Man Who Knew Too Much.

The Lady Vanishes - The Criterion version is superior as it features an (often praised) audio commentary, but is expensive (£25 at *********). There is a featureless R2 edition available for RRP £9.99 on the Cinema Club label, so it's defintely worth considering whether the commentary is worth the additional expenditure.

Incidentally, many of the cheap R1 discs of Hitchcock's earlier films are often criticised for poor transfers, so it is worth checking before you buy.

Tristan H

31-10-2001, 07:58

I'd stick with R1 for all the Universal titles as you get the added bonus of the cover art all being of the same style as well. I'd also recommend like others have, the Criterion Edition of Notorious: fantastic. The Warner releases of Strangers on a Train and North By Northwest are equally good in either region. Also, keep an eye out for next month's 2 disc set of Rebecca from Criterion.

Michael Brooke

31-10-2001, 08:15

The Warner releases of Strangers on a Train and North By Northwest are equally good in either region.

Not true in the case of North By Northwest - the R2 misses out the delicious Hitchcock-fronted trailer that's a piece of film history in its own right.

So the R1 is clearly a first choice.

Andy_C

31-10-2001, 08:21

DeadKenny

31-10-2001, 20:33

Originally posted by Michael Brooke
The Warner releases of Strangers on a Train and North By Northwest are equally good in either region.

Not true in the case of North By Northwest - the R2 misses out the delicious Hitchcock-fronted trailer that's a piece of film history in its own right.

So the R1 is clearly a first choice.

Hmm, I'd prefer PAL where possible, and though it may be good I can live without a trailer I may only watch once.

Undecided on that. So far I've got Criterion's 39 Steps and Notorious (in the post), will be ordering Criterion's Rebecca also, plus I've got the R2 of Vertigo.

Psycho is a dilemma too... R1 non-anamorphic and NTSC, but extras, R2 anamorphic but little extras

Comments on R4 versions (other than amaray cases for Warner titles and price)?

Worth getting boxed sets (R1/2/4) given what I've got so far or are there going to be too many where some are good in a set, but others are best on their own (and if any of the Criterion titles are in the sets, then that pretty much rules them out)?

Just gone through a splurge on Kubrick stuff and think I've got just about the lot wrapped up (including the 'Life in Pictures' documentary disc courtesy of Finland:D, but not the early Kubrick documentaries though I've got those on VHS apart from The Seafarers, and that just leaves Fear and Desire which was withdrawn from circulation), and got the best versions possible of each (though waiting for news on a R4 boxed set of Full Metal Jacket, but only because it would be vastly cheaper, and maybe Clockwork Orange boxed set, though I've got the R2 non-boxed already). So anyway, now I'm onto filling up my Hitchcock collection :D.

Tristan H

31-10-2001, 21:10

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Michael Brooke

Not true in the case of North By Northwest - the R2 misses out the delicious Hitchcock-fronted trailer that's a piece of film history in its own right.

So the R1 is clearly a first choice. [QUOTE]

The R1 can't clearly be the first choice for a trailer that will give you a minute's worth of fun! :) I think the fact that this movie is likely to be watched repeatedly makes the PAL transfer more significant and therefore R2 is marginally better. Just my view.

John Hodson

31-10-2001, 21:42

Originally posted by Michael Brooke
As far as I can see, Saboteur, Shadow of a Doubt, Rope, Strangers On A Train, Rear Window, The Trouble With Harry, The Man Who Knew Too Much are pretty much identical regardless of region.

Not true in the case of Strangers on a Train. The R2 contains the original Hollywood Version (Side A) & alternative British Version (Side B), unlike the R1 (hurrah for R2!).

We are only talking of 2 minutes of film longer on the British version, but it is interesting and worthwhile nonetheless.

---
So many films, so little time..

Andy_C

31-10-2001, 21:49

Originally posted by John Hodson
The R2 contains the original Hollywood Version (Side A) & alternative British Version (Side B), unlike the R1 (hurrah for R2!).

Mmm. <a href="http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviews2/strangersonatrain.html">This review of the R1 at thedigitalbits.com</a> seems to contradict this. They seem to have a R1 with both versions on it.

Further to my first point in this thread, has anyone got any of the other Hitchcock presents TV show DVDs?

Michael Brooke

31-10-2001, 22:18

I have the R1 Strangers on a Train and I'm happy to confirm that it contains both versions of the film. In fact, I was pleasantly surprised to see the R2 did this as well, especially given that The Big Sleep lost an alternate cut when it crossed the Atlantic.

As for the North By Northwest trailer... well, it's up to you! Personally, though, I seriously doubt that there will be any noticeable difference in terms of picture quality between the R1 and R2 versions (the R1 is pretty damn perfect as far as I'm concerned), but this has to be offset against the pitch speedup - which I'd be far more concerned about, especially given that Bernard Herrmann's score is one of his most memorable.

And the trailer is worth having - not least because it's a little bit of cinema history in its own right. I love the Hitchcock-fronted trailers from that era - North By Northwest, Psycho, The Birds and Marnie all have the same dry, tongue-in-cheek approach, and they're all hilarious.

So I picked the R1 - and I'd make the same decision again tomorrow.

John Hodson

01-11-2001, 10:04

Originally posted by Michael Brooke
I have the R1 Strangers on a Train and I'm happy to confirm that it contains both versions of the film.

Ah well - so much for rewind (I bought the R2 after seeing their erroneous comparison)...my apologies.

BTW the picture quality could be better on Strangers on a Train; but maybe I'm nit-picking.

---
So many films, so little time...

DeadKenny

01-11-2001, 12:09

Originally posted by Michael Brooke
As for the North By Northwest trailer... well, it's up to you! Personally, though, I seriously doubt that there will be any noticeable difference in terms of picture quality between the R1 and R2 versions (the R1 is pretty damn perfect as far as I'm concerned), but this has to be offset against the pitch speedup - which I'd be far more concerned about, especially given that Bernard Herrmann's score is one of his most memorable.

It's just that NTSC is a problem for me because my Sony WEGA shows up the gaps between scan lines really badly and I do notice them a lot, so PAL tends to win hands down for me, plus I can't stand pull-down judder (a major drawback with The Shinning, where I much prefer the longer cut but that means R1 and with all those tracking shots you get some bad judder, but again could depend on TV and those watching on a PC or with progressive scan tellies will 'apparently' avoid this). Pitch speedup is far less of an issue for me in that I simply don't notice without something to compare with so I'm happy (even if I know the music from a CD it's still difficult for me to notice unless I play both together).

Settling for PAL then means you've got R4 as an option (cheap and amaray :D).

hitch_fan

01-11-2001, 12:44

Originally posted by DeadKenny

Psycho is a dilemma too... R1 non-anamorphic and NTSC, but extras, R2 anamorphic but little extras

Get the R1. The picture quality of the anamorphic R2 is not better (actually, I thought it worse) than the non-anamorphic R1. I sold the R2 and kept the R1 with its load of extra's.

hitch_fan

01-11-2001, 12:47

Originally posted by Andy_C

Further to my first point in this thread, has anyone got any of the other Hitchcock presents TV show DVDs?

I have all four "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" discs. What do you want to know?

DeadKenny

01-11-2001, 13:10

Originally posted by hitch_fan
Get the R1. The picture quality of the anamorphic R2 is not better (actually, I thought it worse) than the non-anamorphic R1. I sold the R2 and kept the R1 with its load of extra's.

Ditto with my Sony problem, non-anamorphic + NTSC is awful. Just makes the NTSC issue worse. It's all to do with being forced to use the zoom mode (or 14:9 in the case of 1.66:1 films). On a 50Hz Sony WEGA that mode works by simply increasing the gaps between scan lines to effectively expand the image off the screen (which should be the black bar space) - result is like watching through a grill :eek:. 100Hz seems to fix this problem from what I've seen (but introduces others).

The only NTSC non-anamorphic 1.85:1 or wider disc I've got is Brazil (criterion) which really ****** me off because it looks bad, but I've only got it because the set is excellent.

With so many extras on the R1 of Psycho, I'd get it if it was anamorphic, but otherwise I'd rather have a watchable PAL version with little extras than an unwatchable non-anamorphic NTSC version.

What's the R4 version like by the way, or is there a R2 version in europe (i.e. not UK) that's better, or perhaps an anamorphic R2 Japanese or R3 disc (being they're both NTSC) with the extras?

Aardvark

01-11-2001, 13:45

Originally posted by hitch_fan

I have all four "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" discs. What do you want to know?

Two questions from me about these:

1. Are they available as stand-alone discs or do you have to buy a boxset?

2. And, are they worth it? I mean, are the shows enjoyable with reasonable picture quality, or are they just for Hitch completists?

Michael Brooke

01-11-2001, 16:29

I thought the Sony Wega was meant to be a half-decent telly?

Hand on heart, I've watched NTSC DVDs on four separate screens over the last three years or so, and I absolutely can't match the symptoms/problems that DeadKenny describes.

Then again, I think widescreen TVs are more trouble than they're worth, and was delighted to get rid of mine and replace it with a large 4:3 set with a 16:9 mode - result: no zooming, no fiddling around with aspect ratios, just the best possible picture every time. And this is especially true of the Kubrick titles, which looked horrible in widescreen, but terrific in 4:3!

Hendrik

01-11-2001, 16:40

"...result: no zooming, no fiddling around with aspect ratios..."

...also add: no fiddling with moving the image up higher in order to be able to read (optional) subtitles that - with widescreen movies - often as not are located half inside and half below the image...

. . . :D . . .

DeadKenny

01-11-2001, 17:08

Originally posted by Michael Brooke
I thought the Sony Wega was meant to be a half-decent telly?

Hand on heart, I've watched NTSC DVDs on four separate screens over the last three years or so, and I absolutely can't match the symptoms/problems that DeadKenny describes.

Then again, I think widescreen TVs are more trouble than they're worth, and was delighted to get rid of mine and replace it with a large 4:3 set with a 16:9 mode - result: no zooming, no fiddling around with aspect ratios, just the best possible picture every time. And this is especially true of the Kubrick titles, which looked horrible in widescreen, but terrific in 4:3!

Depends if it's a Sony WEGA 50Hz or 100Hz. 100Hz do digital sampling of the analogue image and always physically scan as if it was in 16:9 (or Wide) mode. 50Hz (well the FX20 series at least) works on a bit more mechanical method of doing all that zooming in. I've looked at an FX65 which is 100Hz and I must say it makes a lot of difference (probably similar with FX60) - Brazil being the big test and it looked so much better, although other issues come into play, mainly additional digital 'processing'.

Still, WEGA is fantastic and the best picture I've seen for a CRT, just that on the 50Hz, NTSC & non-anamorphic aren't so good on it (if you sit far enough away you wouldn't notice though, but then you'd be squinting at the TV ;)).

Can't go back to 4:3 though (unless it was a huge TV or a projector). For a start the enhanced resolution of anamorphic can only really be appreciated with 16:9, the TV just feels more natural, and for Kubrick... well, that's what the 4:3 mode is for and it's perfectly fine and even more so if you switch the lights off (which I generally do for all films anyway). If it's a bit small compared to a 4:3 telly, then just get a bigger 16:9 :D.

I am thinking of upgrading to an FX65 which will help out these non-anamorphic and NTSC issues, but I'm still not convinced by the other 'symptoms' you get with 100Hz (plus there's the issue of splashing out some cash:D). Thankfully the 50Hz I've got is rented so I can ditch that. In fact I should change now because I'm paying more than the TV's worth now.

End of the day, if everything was anamorphic, I'd never need anything but Wide mode and I'd be well happy (may not impress 4:3 owners, but oh well :D).

DeadKenny

01-11-2001, 17:11

Originally posted by Hendrik
"...result: no zooming, no fiddling around with aspect ratios..."

...also add: no fiddling with moving the image up higher in order to be able to read (optional) subtitles that - with widescreen movies - often as not are located half inside and half below the image...

. . . :D . . .

If it's anamorphic you never need to do this (in fact you can't because the full image is shown and it's impossible to shift up/down). It's only a problem with awkward backward distributors who still churn out non-anamorphic stuff.

Subtitles within the image doesn't bother me at all - far more things to worry about than a minor thing like that.

hitch_fan

01-11-2001, 17:20

Originally posted by Aardvark

Two questions from me about these:

1. Are they available as stand-alone discs or do you have to buy a boxset?

2. And, are they worth it? I mean, are the shows enjoyable with reasonable picture quality, or are they just for Hitch completists?

1. They are not available as stand-alone discs. You have to buy four boxsets to get them all. To be specific:

Best Of Hitchcock Vol 1 contains: Shadow Of A Doubt, Rope, Rear Window, The Man Who Knew Too Much, Psycho, Topaz, Family Plot and Alfred Hitchcock Presents Vol 2.

Best Of Hitchcock Vol 2 contains: Saboteur, The Trouble With Harry, Vertigo, The Birds, Marnie, Torn Curtain, Frenzy and Alfred Hitchcock Presents Vol 3.

The Alfred Hitchcock Collection Vol 1 contains: Psycho, Vertigo and Alfred Hitchcock Presents Vol 1.

The Alfred Hitchcock Collection Vol 2 contain: Rear Window, The Man Who Knew Too Much and Alfred Hitchcock Presents Vol 4.

As you can see, if you buy all boxsets you're left with some DVD's twice. Clever marketing ploy by Universal :rolleyes:

2. Are they worth it?
For completists and big Hitchcock fans I would say yes as you get all 17 half hour episodes of "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" that Hitchcock himself ever directed (the other episodes of the series were directed by others). Picture quality is good. The shows are very enjoyable not in the least because every episode is introduced by Hitchcock in his own humorous manner. The series is comparable to Roald Dahl's "Tales Of The Unexpected" series if you remember that (not surprising actually as a lot of AH Presents stories were written and/or scripted by Roald Dahl).
For the casual fan, the expense of buying four boxsets to get the four DVD's of AH Presents is probably a bit too much ;)

Aardvark

01-11-2001, 17:44

Based on what you say I'd love to own these discs, but I've already got most of the films - and I'm not going to shell out again! I'll just have to be patient and hope they're eventually released individually...

Narshty

01-11-2001, 22:37

A controversial view, but I found the R2 transfer of Vertigo inferior to the R1, despite the former being anamorphic PAL.

The print used for the R2 disc was grainier, had more damage and colours seemed to always be under-saturated, not to mention some very poor colour timing (Jimmy Stewart looks pink during the kissing in Chapter 30!)

Since the R1 was made under the direct supervision of the film's uber-restorer Robert Harris and Criterion transfer-queen Maria Palazzola, it was made from the interpositive, and has a gorgeous, colourful, rich, velvety sheen to the image lacking in the R2, despite the lower resolution. Detail is still outstanding.

DeadKenny

03-11-2001, 14:02

Originally posted by DavidMcGowan
[b]Notorious, Rebecca & Spellbound - Criterion editions best for special features, but 'The Film Collection' UK releases are passable (and certainly a lot cheaper) if you just want the movie itself.

Can't find Spellbound, it seems it's not out until next year, have you seen a preview version of it or something?

DavidMcGowan

03-11-2001, 14:23

Originally posted by DeadKenny
Can't find Spellbound, it seems it's not out until next year, have you seen a preview version of it or something?

These specs are listed at CriterionDVD (http://www.criteriondvd.com):

* Audio Commentary by Hitchcock scholar Marian Keane
Definitive illustrated essay on the Salvador Dali dream sequence
* Interview with Composer Miklos Rozsa
* Complete broadcast of the 1948 Lux Radio Theatre adaptation starring Joseph Cotten and Alida Valli
* Hundreds of behind-the-scenes photos and documents chronicling the film's production, from psychoanalytical research and set photos to ads, posters, and promotional memorabilia

In terms of extras, the Criterion effort clearly outshines the R2 effort.
Apparently Spellbound has been delayed in order to do more restoration work on the sound, so the picture and sound quality of the film itself may also exceed the R2.