View Full Version : American Beauty - Overrated? **SPOILERS**S
Pike Bishop
26-10-2001, 11:36
Anyone else think that America Beauty is one of the most overrated films of recent years, possibly ever?
I saw it at the cinema because I heard all the hype about it and walked out of the cinema completely bewildered as to why everyone thought it so good.
I mean its not got a story line so to speak, all the characters are extremely cliched and sterotyped - you have the repressed homosexual middle class family man, the homosexual army man next door, the misunderstood daughter and weird/sensitive boyfriend etc etc
The acting IMO is poor, how Kevin Spacey got a best actor oscar for that I do not know, its just normal Kevin Spacey delivering his lines in his monotonous drone. I still cant believe how Spacey got the oscar rather than Richard Farnsworth in the Straight Story whose performance will be looked back on in years to come as one of the finest ever.
Finally, that bit about the floating bag being really beautiful is possibly the most pretentious load of drivel I've ever seen in a movie. It was at that point in the movie when I just started laughing to myself how bad this movie was.
Oh and even worse, Spacey doesn't even get it on with his daughters friend - that was the only reason I stayed in the theatre till the end, to see if there'd be any decent action.
Rant over.
Wrong forum methinks.....
Pike - my thoughts exactly!
I went to the cinema to see it and didnt like it at all, yet all the people who I work with (older) found it fantastic! So I watched it again on Sky and still didnt enjoy it!!!
Personally I think it appeals to an older audience - maybe in the same way that my colleagues didnt like American Pie or Road Trip, but I did! Saying that, Mena is still pretty cute (until she says the ******* word - women should not say that!!!)
Arch Stanton
26-10-2001, 11:45
Over rated, yes.
Bad film, far from it.
It was over hyped, but I still love it and watch the dvd (which is poor.
Michael Brooke
26-10-2001, 11:51
I'm with Arch - it's not a patch on <I>Happiness</I>, a far harder-edged look at similar themes, but it's not a bad film in its own right.
In fact, for a debut (I don't think Sam Mendes had ever made a film before, let alone a feature), it's very promising indeed, and I'll be interested to see what he comes up with next.
This is more suited to the DVD and Movie Forum :)
Moving....
Not as overrated as Shakespeare in Love.
Rachel_M
26-10-2001, 13:22
Originally posted by Ono
Not as overrated as Shakespeare in Love.
I despised that film.:mad:
Michael Brooke
26-10-2001, 13:29
I thought it was very enjoyable for what it was, and a damn sight more entertaining than <I>Saving Private Ryan</I>, the film it trounced at the Oscars.
Now if we're talking overrated films... :D
I think it absolutely deserved all the hype it got. Everybody I know who's seen this film think it's great and the only film ever that we all agree deserved the oscars it got.
Oh. and there's massive spoilers in the topic starter. Please edit it, pike
bddidier
26-10-2001, 13:43
I don't still it's overrated but there is ground for argumentation as described here:
http://www.dvdtalk.com/dvdsavant/s143beauty.html
jonathan.e
26-10-2001, 13:46
o·ver·rate (vr-rt)
tr.v. o·ver·rat·ed, o·ver·rat·ing, o·ver·rates
To overestimate the merits of; rate too highly.
cf.Magnolia, American Beauty, Shakespeare in Love
I didn't like it that much the first time I saw it (perhaps I expected too much after all the hype), but on my second and third viewings it got a lot better.
Not the best film ever, but not a film to be trashed.
I thought AB was fantastic. It was a film i had bought blind, i had missed out on it when it was in the cinemas and it wasn't until Christmas last year that i could sit down and watch it 'hype free' so to speak.
I'm only 22 and i found it very appealing, there was something about Kevin's performance and the dry, black humour to it all that i found very engaging. If it wasn't for the fact that i was watching it late at night i would have put the film on again. I couldn't believe how much i enjoyed it.
People comment on the blatant stereotypes and the cliches used throughout the film but for me the story was captivating enough to see past them.
The carrier bag sequence was also quite touching, yes maybe on the pretentious side a bit, but relevent to the story in regards to what we find to be beautiful within ourselves.
(God listen to me i sound like i should be writing an essay;))
The one thing that does bother me is the praise Sam Mendes received for his direction. From looking at the documentery on the DVD it looks like cinematographer Conrad L Hall did all of the 'directing' himself. I believe it was Sam's directorial debut and you can tell, as it seems he hasn't got a clue what he's doing. Especially on the doc, the bit where they are filming the cheerleader sequence. Amazing :eek:
I am looking forward to Sam's next 'The Road to Perdition' although i have heard negative things about it already, although it should be good to see Tom Hanks playing a bad guy for a change.
There's my 2p :D
Cap'n Al
26-10-2001, 14:53
I'm with those who disliked it. I loved it the first time I saw it, raved about it to all my friends and family, and then realised it was a classic case of 'The Emperor's New Clothes'; nice performances, some witty lines, good direction but very little real substance.
I also preferred Shakespeare in Love to Saving Private Ryan: one was one of the wittiest and most intelligent romantic comedies ever made, the other was merely a cliched war film elevated slightly by well-staged battle scenes.
Pike Bishop
26-10-2001, 15:08
Forgot about the spoilers - sorry, I've edited it now.
I mean its not the worst film I've ever seen in my life - that accolade would probably go to The Mummy Returns, its up there in my top ten though. I just cant forgive this film for the fact that Spacey won the Oscar and Farnsworth didn't - if anyone has seen the Straight Story you'll know what I'm talking about. All the more sad that soon after the Oscars, Farnsworth killed himself (he was dying of cancer anyway). Would have been a nice moment for him to pick up an Oscar, just before the end of his life.
Sorry but that floaty bag thing is just pathetic.
I absoulutley adore American Beauty!!!
I'd go into reasons why its such a great film, but if there's one thing I've learnt you can't change anyone's opinion on the films they like/dislike, it's impossible;)
Are you sure you watched it?? I'm only saying that cos I'm unsure who the 'repressed homosexual middle class family man' is.
I don't think it was overrated at all.I really liked the film.
rogeralpine
26-10-2001, 16:34
I do like this film but on my second viewing I was a little disappointed. It's just not as 'solid' as perhaps it could have been. Definitely has some very good moments and the overall plot IMHO is very good, I just wish it flowed a little better that's all.
RoboCop4
26-10-2001, 16:35
I definitely agree that it's overrated, but not badly made.
IMHO the film says nothing about the impact of a mid-life crisis, or dysfunctional suburban families, that hasn't been said before.
I thought that the performances from Kevin Spacey, Annette Benning etc. were pretty good (even though he always seemed to have the same half-cynical smile throughout the picture).
Pike Bishop
26-10-2001, 16:50
Originally posted by Bolch
Are you sure you watched it?? I'm only saying that cos I'm unsure who the 'repressed homosexual middle class family man' is.
Duh!
I just adore it - Like some others here, I didn't get to catch it in the cinema and bought the DVD purely on the "hype" basis. I'm glad I did. The "paper bag" scene is one of the truly touching scenes I have seen in a long while. Some of my friends simply and utterly hate naming it bland, dull, lifeless and ultimately pointless. How wrong they are..this film has magic - it's upto the individual to see it and feel it.
Brian_JD
26-10-2001, 19:14
Originally posted by Bolch
Are you sure you watched it?? I'm only saying that cos I'm unsure who the 'repressed homosexual middle class family man' is.
I was wondering the same thing :p
Bapapapa
26-10-2001, 19:16
Originally posted by Brian_JD
I was wondering the same thing :p
So was I.
I only didn't mention it for fear of being laughed at.
I don't liek taht. :o
BRILLIANT FILM!
Say no more.
wong fei hong
26-10-2001, 21:19
I really loved it. I saw it at the cinema as was thoroughly impressed. It seemed as if every element - performance, visuals, sound, story - had come together in the most amazing way. Everything seemed perfectly pitched.
A second viewing had me impressed still, but realising that it is probably one of those films you should watch once and leave alone for a couple of years. It's now about twelve months since I saw it and I don't feel in a hurry to watch again. Hmm. As it stands, one of the great cinema experiences of my life (and I see about two films a week).
Not as good as Happiness or Magnolia though...
Pike Bishop
29-10-2001, 08:57
Originally posted by wong fei hong
A second viewing had me impressed still, but realising that it is probably one of those films you should watch once and leave alone for a couple of years. It's now about twelve months since I saw it and I don't feel in a hurry to watch again.
Yes but surely the mark of a 'great film' is that you do want to watch it again and again, and appreciate moments that you hadn't picked up on the previous viewing. For me AB doesn't do that.
Still can't believe all of you find that floating bag so moving - when you're down Sainsbury's and a plastic bag is floating around in the car park do you stop and think to yourself - 'my, isn't that the most beautiful thing I have ever seen.'
Bapapapa
29-10-2001, 09:03
Yes but surely the mark of a 'great film' is that you do want to watch it again and again, and appreciate moments that you hadn't picked up on the previous viewing.
Pike Bishop - you still haven't answered the following question..
Are you sure you watched it?? I'm only saying that cos I'm unsure who the 'repressed homosexual middle class family man' is.
:p
Pike - Have you worked out which film you were watching with regards to the 'repressed homosexual middle class family man'?
EDIT - Bloody Baps :D
Pike Bishop
29-10-2001, 09:30
Yes that'll be Kevin Spacey won't it.
You can't tell me that there wasn't a hint of that, the number of references that were given to it. I mean for a start he aint boning his wife, and he doesnt bone the cute girl either. Then theres the subtext with the next door neighbour. Admitedly I havent seen the film since the cinema when first released so I'm a bit vague on full details. Dont flame me for it though, just expressing my opinion.
Bapapapa
29-10-2001, 09:43
Yes that'll be Kevin Spacey won't it.
Oh dear.
I mean for a start he aint boning his wife,
She wasn't interested.
and he doesnt bone the cute girl either.
And, like he didn't want to..
Then theres the subtext with the next door neighbour.
Eh?
Maybe you *should* watch it again. :/
I agree it is overrated, though.
Pike Bishop
29-10-2001, 09:49
Originally posted by Bapapapa
[b] and he doesnt bone the cute girl either.
And, like he didn't want to..
Didn't want to! Guess that proves my point then.
Bapapapa
29-10-2001, 09:52
Sorry forgot the smilie.
and he doesnt bone the cute girl either.
And, like he didn't want to.. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Pike Bishop
Yes that'll be Kevin Spacey won't it.
You can't tell me that there wasn't a hint of that, the number of references that were given to it. I mean for a start he aint boning his wife, and he doesnt bone the cute girl either. Then theres the subtext with the next door neighbour. Admitedly I havent seen the film since the cinema when first released so I'm a bit vague on full details. Dont flame me for it though, just expressing my opinion.
I think you'll find he doesn't "bone the cute girl" because he found out she was virgin as he was about to. He realised that he wasn't worthy to take this young girls virginity, which I thought was equally moving and brilliant writing.
The phrase boned the girl in that scenes context is totally out of place, and gives further insight into what kind of person you need to be to fully appreciate the "beauty" in American Beauty.
This is in no way a slant on anyone, I'm merely showing how a certain frame if mind is required to appreciate such films.
Originally posted by chris21
I think you'll find he doesn't "bone the cute girl" because he found out she was virgin as he was about to. He realised that he wasn't worthy to take this young girls virginity, which I thought was equally moving and brilliant writing.
The phrase boned the girl in that scenes context is totally out of place, and gives further insight into what kind of person you need to be to fully appreciate the "beauty" in American Beauty.
This is in no way a slant on anyone, I'm merely showing how a certain frame if mind is required to appreciate such films.
I agree comments like 'he wasnt boning his wife or that nice bird' really show a total lack of understanding for this film. There were very important reasons why he didnt do either.
I for one have seen this film about 4 times now and it gets better every time I watch it and I still get very emotionally moved!!
I await the barrage of impending insults.........
You've got admit though the phrase 'boned the girl' is quite funny :D
But yes, completly out of context and shows a lack of understanding of the said motion picture.
Masanevre
08-02-2010, 15:52
Caught this friday night for the first time in years. Its still quite amusing and has its moments but I thin it was cleary overated looking back at it now. I like Spacey though I thought his performance was convincing.
Todd Tomorrow
08-02-2010, 15:57
I always hated this smug, facile film, but it's critical stock seems to really have dropped over the last decade.
Masanevre
08-02-2010, 16:14
Do you think it felt it was more accomplished than it really was? Maybe people warmed to it because perhaps some could relate to it . Why do you think its ciritical stock has fallen?
I think it was/is an excellent film, gorgeously shot, well scripted, and with fabulous performances. The originally scripted ending was better IMO, but that's a small gripe. The soundtrack was great too.
The OP quite clearly didn't have a clue given some of his conclusions.
Todd Tomorrow
08-02-2010, 16:43
Why do you think its ciritical stock has fallen?
Reading articles now which mention American Beauty, it's rarely in a positive way and there has been quite a backlash since it's release. Since it made Premiere Magazines Most Overrated Movies of all Time list, a lot of people have been sticking in the knife and there aren't that many critics willing to defend the film now. Its Oscar win is also often considered to have been the result of an unusually aggressive and expensive marketing campaign by DreamWorks.
Tom Whitaker
08-02-2010, 17:39
I'd rather have seen The Insider take Best Picture that year, but I think it was deserving and certainly better than many others that have taken home the top prize. Maybe I was the right age but I hadn't seen much like it at the time, and it seems to have had an impact on things made since (the likes of Six Feet Under, for obvious reasons).
As for Premiere's list, A Beautiful Mind is far more over-rated than American Beauty.
Is that the snowball effect of critics not wanting to be seen defending it now though? There's nothing wrong with the film, I haven't seen it in a couple of years but I can't imagine disliking it now, it's always been a bit poncey and fawning, but it is what it is.
As for Premiere's list, A Beautiful Mind is far more over-rated than American Beauty.
Again, Beautiful Mind is a decent enough film but it's a fairly stock biopic, there's nothing in there that raises it above that level.
Good shout on The Insider, that's a very good film.
Masanevre
08-02-2010, 17:45
I think it was/is an excellent film, gorgeously shot, well scripted, and with fabulous performances. The originally scripted ending was better IMO, but that's a small gripe. The soundtrack was great too.
The OP quite clearly didn't have a clue given some of his conclusions.
What was the orginal scripted ending?
American Beauty is a beautiful and brilliant film. Outstanding directiom by Sam Mendes, and excellent score and Conrad Hall photography is in a class of its own.
It may not be to everyone's tastes I can appreciate that, each to their own.
What was the orginal scripted ending?
Kevin Spacey's daughter and her boyfriend get convicted of his murder.
avid fan
09-02-2010, 09:22
Seems like I’ve come from the opposite direction to the OP.
Originally saw it at the cinema on its release and thought it was complete c**p.
Hadn’t seen it since, but decided to review again last week and really liked it (though I guess my expectations had taken a major hit in the intervening period).
mystictash
09-02-2010, 09:39
Pike - my thoughts exactly!
I went to the cinema to see it and didnt like it at all, yet all the people who I work with (older) found it fantastic! So I watched it again on Sky and still didnt enjoy it!!!
How old are we talking here? I asw this film when i was 18 and thought it was brilliant. Does age really come into it?
themightyboosh
09-02-2010, 10:27
American Beauty is a beautiful and brilliant film. Outstanding directiom by Sam Mendes, and excellent score and Conrad Hall photography is in a class of its own.
It may not be to everyone's tastes I can appreciate that, each to their own.
My thoughts exactly, I've seen it many times and don't think its impact has diminished over the years.
zantarous
12-02-2010, 00:44
I remember not wanting to see this as it did not look like a film I would be interested and only went as a colleague at work was raving about how good it was. I loved it form the first moment I saw it, from the actors to cinematography to the witty dark humour that was evident through the whole film.
This was also one the first films I bought on DVD and have watched it several times over the years and it never gets boring or tiring. Must be time for a rewatch soon.
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