Why can't players handle a layer change better?

[Jon Weaver]

I recently got my Pioneer 545, and was surprised that it handles the 'layer change' worse than my old Pioneer 709.

Its not a major problem, but you would have thought that they would have done something about this by now.

All (most) players can do seamless branching, but why can't they change layers seamlessly too.

All it would take is a bit of memory as a buffer.. You would think that someone would have atleast had a go at fixing it!

[Sammy709Sony930]

Pioneer 709?

John, hows about a mini-review of the 545, as I'm seriously tempted by this sexy machine (and the 444).

The username gives away my current equipment!

I'm sick to death with the Sammy skipping after the layer change when hot. And its not too clever with scratched CDs either.

[Paul Buglass]

A very good question Jon, and one which I have never seen a convincing answer to, other than it would make the players more expensive. I can't see how it would make a difference to a 'quality' player to charge slightly more for a buffer to eliminate Layer change pauses. I would imaging the ammount of buffer capacity required would vary from disc to disc as some could take longer to 'pick-up' the second layer than others.

Interestingly my old Wharfedale 750 never showed any pause at layer change for most of my DVDs, whereas my replacement 750S shows a slight pause which is more often noticable.

A major factor is with layer changes is where they happen. On a good DVD they are 'hidden' between scenes with a fade to black where the pause is totally un-noticable on most players. Others are really shoddy and place them in the middle of a scene, "What lies beneath" comes to mind where the change is in the middle of a face to face dialogue scene, and definitley noticable if there is any kind of pause with the player.

Best wishes

/Paul B, York, UK.

[HemsaaB]

Indeed... I used to have the old Wharfdale 750 (NOT s), and that handled the layer change far better then my upgrade... - Pioneer DV-646D.

Rather a shame that!!

[Jon Weaver]

Sorry.. Not Pioneer 709, but a Samsung 709.. What was I thinking!

When I get time I will write a little review on the 545, but if you are in doubt.. Don't be..

Get a 444/545 and you won't be sorry.. Especially if you have been using a 709 before.

Whilst the 709 is a decent player, the 444/545 is far better.

If you can live without a 2nd SCART and don't want some analogue audio enhancements.. FOrget the 545 and go for the 444.

Its esentially the same and can be found from UpgradeHeaven for £200.

I admit that I miss not having the zoom feature (although I never used it before) and decent FF/REW speeds like you get on the 709.. But over all its a far better player.

If you have any specific questions about the Pioneer.. Just ask.

[Nick dVl]

Or, instead of packing the machine with an expensive large memory buffer, why don't they just fit DVD drives with two lasers, one focused on each layer constantly? That way, you'd only need a small amount of memory to smooth out the slight glitch that would occur when the lasers are switched at the end of a layer.

But nooooo...that would be far too obvious for the manufacturers! :rolleyes:

[jason t]

the denon dvd 2800 has a 4 meg buffer which is supposed to eliminate layer change, i will confirm this next week when mine arrives :D

jason

[Ron Hill]

Originally posted by jason t
the denon dvd 2800 has a 4 meg buffer which is supposed to eliminate layer change, i will confirm this next week when mine arrives :D

jason

AT LAST a manufacturer has realised that there is a demand for layer change elimination. Please post if it lists this feature on the packaging. If it does then other companies will take note and it will be only a matter of time before this is considered essential. Especially if it has a cool sounding marketing name and fancy logo to sit alongside DD and DTS, TruSurround etc.

[Sammy709Sony930]

Jon,

Do you find the 545 less prone to skipping than the 709?

I borrowed my brother-in-laws 444 last week, and tested Toy Story 2 (much abused by my 3 year old), which went haywire near the end of the film on my 709. The Pioneer played it perfectly.

Another disc that was skipping was a brand new Rugrats in Paris.
Again, no problems on the 444. Now the Rugrats in Paris has developed a bloody huge scratch right across the surface. The wife says that its skipping like buggery on the 709.

[Jon Weaver]

The 545 is rock solid!

Saying that, the only problem I had with skipping on my 709 was heat related (atleast I am 90% sure it was)

When I moved the player so that it had nothing on top, I never had skipping again..

But after watching a film, the disks came out hot.. I sometimes wondered if they would melt.

I can't imagine the Pioneer having problems reading anything!

Don't be in any doubt, the new Pioneers are in a completely different league to the 709..

Don't get me wrong.. The 709 is still a valuable bit of kit, but its definatly showing its age.

Last night I took a look at U-571 which always looked like it was runing in a 65000 colours.. When there was subtle shading, the 709 always showed this as 'bands' of colour.

The Pioneer shows all scenes in their true form (i.e infinate shading) and you get none of the banding seen on models like the 709.

[Sammy709Sony930]

Yeah I know what you mean about HOT discs after a play in the 709!

Mine has always been prone to skipping after the layer change.

The problem with TS2 was definately NOT heat, more an abused my kiddy disc problem! The 444 played it just fine.

[Sammy709Sony930]

I've also seen your posts stating that the 709 has lip-sync issues with DTS discs (Hannibal was mentioned).

I rented 15mins R2 the other night and it most definately had LS problems in DTS. I switched to the DD track and it appeared to be fine.

Does the 545/444 suffer from any DTS Lip-Sync problems?

And sorry for hi-jacking your thread. For sure, the players nowadays should be buffering the data first to circumvent the layer change.

However, its always nice to look at your friends whilst watching a DVD and say "layer change!".