Once Upon a Time in America?

[brunny78]

watched this again for the third time today and must says better on subsequent viewings. one thing always bothers me though; what is the motivation behind the notorious rape scene? why does noodles do it? how do you think Leonne wanted us to feel about the character?

[Rik Booth]

I agree, it's a superb film and does indeed get better the more you see it - also, after watching the doc on Disc 2, I appreciate Leone's work even more.

The rape is intended to show how brutal Noodles is, how he is a morally deplorable character with little redeemable features. In fact, when you say "rape scene", there are actually two - which one do you mean? Both show the aforementioned character traits, and allows the audience to remember that even if this character has done a small amount of good, at heart he is tortured and wrong. Perhaps it's because he doesn't know how to deal with emotion, or maybe it's just because he's wicked to the core.

[earl_roberts2002]

Maybe I've myself simplified his motivation to help my understanding of the film but that scene is understandable for me.
Noodles loves Deborah and always has. The extend of his love for her is told to us by him after he takes her out to dinner, just before the rape when they are lying by the beach and he tells her of his thoughts of her every, single day for years on end whilst he was in prison.
Because Noodles has always had anything he wanted, friends, girls, respect, money, etc. he rather simple-mindedly thinks he can have Deborahs love simply by offering his.
In this beach scene, although she says something which could be taken as hope, I think the dialouge is something like "If I was with you, you'd lock me up and never let me go wouldn't you? Thing is I probably wouldn't mind" You can really tell that she isn't going to fall for Noodles. He's done everything he can think of for her {with the empty, beach side restaurant** which is probably more than he has ever done for any other girl but she still rejects him. On top of Noodle's rejection comes the news that Deborah is moving to Hollywood. The cut to inside the car on this news and the look on De Niro's face tells you everything, he realises that potentially, he may never see her again and will never have the chance to become close to her, to be able to love her. As these thoughts are going through his head, she leans over and kisses him. He then follows the kiss through and proceeds to rape her. Partly as an angry reaction to the news that she is leaving him and partly because of all the love he has lavished on her, he simply must have her, at least once.

Oddly, I think Leone has this scene as a way of us getting closer to Noodles. It's one of the only scenes in the film where you see his full motivation for what is about to happen. Essentially he's throwing a tantrum. It makes him human and relateable for the audience although he is raping somebody. I think the scene works in basically taking us deeper into this man and getting to know his character.

I can't wait to watch this film again!

[Shingster]

As Earl roberts says, Noodles' entire approach to life is shown in his approaches towards women, he's shown early on in the film presumably losing his virginity on the roof with Max and the policemen, his attempt at sex with her is a little over-eager to say the least, almost like a horny Dog :D. With no other means of expressing his desires to Deborah he resorts to the exact same tactics he does when there's anything he wants, he takes her by force. His entire approach to women is materialistic, which is why Deborah wouldn't allow herself to be with him. He of course realises the damage he has done the moment he has finished.

It's this naivety (and of course other factors) that lead to him being so easily manipulated by Max later on in the film and it's one of the major themes of the movie, for me.

[gZa]

Originally posted by earl_roberts2002
On top of Noodle's rejection comes the news that Deborah is moving to Hollywood. The cut to inside the car on this news and the look on De Niro's face tells you everything, he realises that potentially, he may never see her again and will never have the chance to become close to her, to be able to love her. As these thoughts are going through his head, she leans over and kisses him.Indeed. "When you've been betrayed by a friend you hit back!"

[CRB]

"It's just the way I see things"


My favourite film EVER.

[droach75]

i agree Once upon a time in America is a film that definitly gets better with age and repeat screenings.

i remember seeing it first in my early teens and thought it was kind of average.

After growing up and appreciating films, through watching a lot of top films and doing a film degree, this film has gone up,,,way up in my estimation

This film, like most of Leones work is techincally brilliant, editing, camera movement, framing and music is just exscuisite.

It really ticks me off how the film was butched when released, how there was no Morricone soundtrack,,thats possibly why he never got the Oscar he deserved.

[kerbcrawler]

Something that's always bugged me about this film - I don't know whther it's due to a missing scene or what - but after the gang visit Treat Williams in hospital they exit an elevator and are seen to leave by the Joe Pesci character. What do other people make of Joe Pesci's character being seen at this time? I would be very interested to hear.

kc

[gZa]

Originally posted by kerbcrawler
What do other people make of Joe Pesci's character being seen at this time? I would be very interested to hear.It's there to foreshadow Max joining with the Mafia and betraying Noodles.

Joe Pesci IN.

Noodles OUT.

"Tomorrow he ask me to get rid of you. Is that okay with you? Coz it's not okay with me!"

[brunny78]

pesci's character obviously has something to do with max faking his death and, as what i think Gary means by the Mafia, bigger things that don't include Noodles.

[earl_roberts2002]

Yeah I agree about Pesci. He signifies that Max and the gang have gone against Noodles.

Does anybody know what scenes are missing from this film?
If you watch the stills gallery on the DVD then you can notice a couple, including an interesting looking one of Deborah performing as Cleopatra, holding snakes. Does anyone know of any other?

[mcmullanbrush]

I always took as an indicator to Noodles charatcer. He felt he a "paid" for the services he took.

[kerbcrawler]

Thanks for the explanations all but if that's the case (which would seem to make sense) why would Pesci's character look puzzled about seeing Max and noodles leaving the Hospital?

kc