View Full Version : Nine Leicester players arrested over assault claims
johnson293
04-03-2004, 12:00
Breaking News:
Nine Leicester players have been arrested by Spanish police in relation to allegations of sexual assault against three women.
The allegations were made at Alicante airport by the women, who were heading home to Germany after a holiday in the area, police in Cartagena confirmed.
Eight of the players are being questioned by police as a result of alleged incidents during their training camp at La Manga in Spain.
One of the players was released on bail while the eight others remained in custody.
The Foxes had flown out to La Manga for some warm weather training before returning at the weekend for the final leg of their battle to stay in the Premiership.
But for the second time City's trip to the Spanish resort will be remembered for the wrong reasons.
The rest of the squad have flown back to England after cutting short their stay.
Four years ago striker Stan Collymore set off a fire extinguisher in a hotel bar and the squad were asked to leave their hotel and returned home.
A club spokesman said: "The club is aware that eight players have been interviewed by Spanish police.
"This is a result of alleged incidents which took place during the club's training camp in Spain this week.
"The club is co-operating fully with the authorities in their investigations but, as these investigations are still ongoing, it is not in a position to make any further comments at this stage.''
City's chief executive Tim Davies is understood to have flown out to Spain to meet up with manager Micky Adams who has remained with the players.
Bad publicity surrounding an incident such as this is the last thing that Adams would have wanted with his side in such a precarious position in the Premiership.
Leicester flew out to Spain on Sunday on the back of a run of 15 league and cup games without a win stretching back three months.
Toni Coles, managing director of the La Manga complex, told the Leicester Mercury: "There has been an incident. The matter is between two independent parties. The hotel is not involved. I have nothing else to say.''
No names please....innocent till proven, and all that!
MJ
Welshlad
04-03-2004, 12:10
Perhaps they want a transfer to Newcastle in the summer? ;)
johnson293
04-03-2004, 12:16
Originally posted by Welshlad
Perhaps they want a transfer to Newcastle in the summer? ;)
:nono:
MJ :)
Oi Mr...all the charges dropped thank you very much!
unrealnils
04-03-2004, 12:35
:cry:
Thats the last thing we need, i really hope the Foxes can stay up but its not looking good at all :o
Didn't they cause trouble on a previous break to Spain, you'd have thought they'd have shown more sense.
Doubt Ian Walker would have been one of them, bet he could keep hold of em - kept slipping through his grasp!!
Leicester 0-5 Villa
:D
(Mods - delete if needed;))
AngryFlower
04-03-2004, 14:03
I recognised a couple of first team players being bundled into a van on Sky's footage (but no names.)
rsykes2000
04-03-2004, 14:18
There is a list of players names/initials doing the rounds already. 1 charged with 'failing to assist the three women', 4 charged with 'sexual assault and breaking and entering', 3 with 'breaking and entering and failing to assist the three women' and 1 with 'assault and breaking and entering'.
If true, absolutely disgraceful.
Originally posted by Welshlad
Perhaps they want a transfer to Newcastle in the summer? ;)
:lol:
Failing to assist the three women? So in other words, because they didnt perform any type of heroics they should be charged too? (Not that im saying they shouldnt have tried to stop there the other guilty blokes)
rsykes2000
04-03-2004, 14:27
Originally posted by Kronik
Failing to assist the three women? So in other words, because they didnt perform any type of heroics they should be charged too? (Not that im saying they shouldnt have tried to stop there the other guilty blokes)
Too right they should be charged as well. If someone I knew was being sexually assaulted, I would expect any right-thinking person to do their best to stop it, not just stand and watch. If this did happen, they are just as guilty as the others who committed the alleged act.
rsykes2000
04-03-2004, 14:29
Oh, and apparently the rest of the team have just been arrested too. Something to do with the Trades Description Act and impersonating footballers ?
:)
The Bear
04-03-2004, 15:56
I didn't realise Collymore was back with Leicester ;)
I assume the Police also apprehended Dickov for having a false passport. Some fool had put Professional Footballer on there.
Although when the Police grabbed him he immediately threw himself to the ground claiming a penalty.
Disclaimer - None of the above jokes have any relation to the alleged incident in La Manga.
AngryFlower
04-03-2004, 16:20
Originally posted by rsykes2000
There is a list of players names/initials doing the rounds already. 1 charged with 'failing to assist the three women', 4 charged with 'sexual assault and breaking and entering', 3 with 'breaking and entering and failing to assist the three women' and 1 with 'assault and breaking and entering'.
If true, absolutely disgraceful.
Yup, seen that list - and it seems one of the lcfc fan sites forums has already been taken down.
The list of names is a part of the Spanish Police press release.
Statement from police officers in Murcia
The translated statement from police in Murcia reads: For a sexual aggression to three women, the Spanish police detained nine English football players.
Agents from the Judicial Police from the Police Station of Cartagena, of the National Police, proceeded to arrest nine people, all of them belonging to the English Football team, Leicester City, in relation to a sexual attack on three women.
When the ladies reported the offence at Alicante Airport, they were waiting to fly to Germany. They indicated that the detained forced the women into the bedroom that they were using at the Hotel de Los Belones, in Cartagena, in which they were sexually assaulted by some of the detained.
The victims gave to the police a bracelet that one had pulled from one of the aggressors, also ripped pants marked with blood.
After reporting the incident at the airport, the ladies wished to carry on with their flight to Germany.
However, the National Police made them see the necessity for them to remain in Spain whilst investigations were carried out. The accusers presented bruises in various parts of their bodies and were examined at the General Hospital, Alicante, by the doctor of the Guardia of Cartagena.
The police took the ladies to the police station at Cartagena where the victims independently recognised, by photographs, the people involved and were able to tell how each person was involved.
The accused were encouraged to go to the police station where they were arrested.
: Accused of a crime of omission for not aiding the victims;
: Accused of sexual aggression and trespass;
: Accused of trespassing and omission to aid victims;
: Accused of sexual aggression and trespass;
: Accused of aggression and trespass;
: Accused of trespass and omission of aiding victims;
: Accused of sexual aggression and trespass;
: Accused of sexual aggression and trespass;
: Accused of trespass and omission to aid the victims.
After the declarations, they released ** on bail, the other eight remaining in custody, and this morning they appeared in court.
According to information from the hotel security personnel, where the incident took place, the players of the named club on the night before the alleged incident appeared to be drunk, having arguments between themselves and other clients.
The Judicial Police of Cartagena instructed police of the court (Juzgado de Instruccion Tres de Cartagena) while the victims at Alicante Airport were taken to another court (Instruccion Uno de Elche) for protection.
I have, however, taken their initials out of the translation in case it breaks any forum rules.
AngryFlower
04-03-2004, 17:03
Originally posted by t@xman
The list of names is a part of the Spanish Police press release.
I have, however, taken their initials out of the translation in case it breaks any forum rules.
You've left one in. ;)
Interesting how the Spanish Police allegedly made the women wait in Spain for three days before arresting the players. :suspect:
It's also thought Spanish Police have got the name of one of the players wrong.
Originally posted by Kronik
Failing to assist the three women? So in other words, because they didnt perform any type of heroics they should be charged too? (Not that im saying they shouldnt have tried to stop there the other guilty blokes)
I seem to remember that failing to assist a person in need of help
is an offence in Spain. Not a bad thing aswell.
Originally posted by johnson293
No names please....innocent till proven, and all that!
Just to back this up, no names please.
NINE players - it beggars belief, it really does!
Radiohead
04-03-2004, 21:47
The players were named on Sky News earlier this evening.
welshmatt
04-03-2004, 21:56
Names are mentioned on the BBC website if there is anyone left who doesnt know.
AngryFlower
05-03-2004, 07:32
I think it's fair to play safe, until the players are formally charged.
rsykes2000
05-03-2004, 08:58
Names are in all the papers this morning too. The players have yet to be charged, but are likely to be and could be due in court today. 2 more have been released on the spanish version of bail as they are up on the lesser offence of breaking and entering and failing to assist.
johnson293
05-03-2004, 09:06
Originally posted by rsykes2000
Names are in all the papers this morning too. The players have yet to be charged, but are likely to be and could be due in court today. 2 more have been released on the spanish version of bail as they are up on the lesser offence of breaking and entering and failing to assist.
I wonder where this leaves them, in terms of their next fixture?
Will any/all of the players involved be available for selection, or will they be detained in Spain if charged?
MJ
AngryFlower
05-03-2004, 09:47
Originally posted by rsykes2000
Names are in all the papers this morning too. The players have yet to be charged, but are likely to be and could be due in court today. 2 more have been released on the spanish version of bail as they are up on the lesser offence of breaking and entering and failing to assist.
Yup, they were released yesterday.
I'm pretty disappointed in the press coverage today though - especially the Mail's destruction of the six who've been kept in custody.
This may rumble on if the charges are dropped.
rsykes2000
05-03-2004, 10:18
Originally posted by johnson293
I wonder where this leaves them, in terms of their next fixture?
Will any/all of the players involved be available for selection, or will they be detained in Spain if charged?
MJ
Depends on what they're charged with, I suppose. If they are charged with Sexual Assault, they may well be held in custody, althought I suppose being higher-profile than your average person, the club could use lawyers to get them out on bail.
AngryFlower
05-03-2004, 12:42
Rumours that charges will proceed on three of the players.
Frank Sinclair, Paul Dickov and Keith Gillespie have been sent to prison by the presiding judge in the case. She is satisfied there is a case to answer and has charged those 3. Depending on how quickly things move, they could be in prison for months according to a Sky News reporter.
The 3 other players have been given bail. There are no details as to wether there are any conditions such as having to surrender passports.
Radiohead
05-03-2004, 13:49
If they did it then I hope they throw the book at them and end their careers. As far as I'm concerned we've seen too many players acting like they're beyond the law and geting away with it.
Perhaps this is the wake-up call the game so desparately needs.
Originally posted by Radiohead
If they did it then I hope they throw the book at them and end their careers. As far as I'm concerned we've seen too many players acting like they're beyond the law and geting away with it.
Perhaps this is the wake-up call the game so desparately needs.
Indeed.
James Lawton has been talking about the moral bankruptcy of football for ages and his article today is spot on
Check it out (http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/comment/story.jsp?story=498013)
Just heard on the news that in Spain it's effectively an open decision with regards to any trial. It could be next week, next month, next year or even in 2 years. So these players might be looking at a very lengthy time in prison, even if they aren't convicted.
Welshlad
05-03-2004, 14:21
Originally posted by Radiohead
If they did it then I hope they throw the book at them and end their careers. As far as I'm concerned we've seen too many players acting like they're beyond the law and geting away with it.
Perhaps this is the wake-up call the game so desparately needs.
Indeed, but its important to remember they haven't been found guilty of anything yet. Its not the first and no doubt wont be the last 'incident' to tarnish the already black name of football.
unfortunately its just another example of what happens when stupid, unedicated people receive vast sums of money!
Its a pity, 'cos I could be far more sensible given that sort of wealth...*sigh*
Radiohead
05-03-2004, 14:37
Originally posted by GregB
Indeed.
James Lawton has been talking about the moral bankruptcy of football for ages and his article today is spot on
Check it out (http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/comment/story.jsp?story=498013)
I read that this morning - sometimes I find Lawton a bit irritating, but he's right on the money with that article.
Mr Dubby
05-03-2004, 14:38
One of the players jailed was best mates with another player recently charged with a similar offence (case thrown out though) when they were at the same club together - they were toady good for nothing but footballers back then too and some of the things they thought they'd get away with just because of who they thought they were!!!!!???? :oh-hum:
BlueDwarf
05-03-2004, 14:40
Originally posted by Welshlad
unfortunately its just another example of what happens when stupid, unedicated people receive vast sums of money!
Those pesky "unedicated" footballers, eh?
:p ;)
Ben Martin
05-03-2004, 14:57
i don't think the game is in any need of a "wake-up call". not to say these charges aren't serious, but it has very little to do with football itself, and at any rate these incidents are extremely few and far between, however serious and unpleasant they may be. these are private, legal matters. if the players are guilty then they'll get what's coming to them, the same as anyone else who committed such a crime. but i don't see any evidence of there being some kind of epidemic eating away at the fabric of the sport.
the majority of players don't wind up in any such trouble, and indeed many of the top players actively shun elements of even the 'average' lifestyle of young men their age. yes, footballers earn ridiculously high wages these days, but like it or not that is how much money there is in the sport and better they get that slice than corporate fat-cats and shareholders.
all this talk of "the poor game" ... surely the players are the game? this is the crux of the matter for me; the perverse sense of ownership that many fans seem to feel about the players and 'the game'. and it has to be said that this is stronger in people who only became interested in football after it became "cool" following italia '90.
that lawton article is verging on a rant. and ironically he is furthering the general tabloid fervour that you would expect the independent to intelligently distance itself from. he has a few sound points there, but he ruins it all with his tone and choice of select examples. examples that "expose" nothing but a tiny minority of misbehaving players.
he also tries to score a few cheap shots with references to two united players. i can only assume his logic is instant sympathy for his 'argument' from the majority of readers. but i mention these for the england example (as i don't want to knock this off course with accusations of my united bias).
though not directly critical of rio ferdinand, he is mentioned with implicit condemnation. then gary neville is taken to task for daring to stand up for his fellow teammate (for reasons not directly related to the drug-test, though this is not pointed out). even well-known ABU simon barnes, who writes for the times, was congratulatory about the england players' stance on this issue. i will quote the first part of an article he wrote on the subject, as it nicely sums up many of the issues i'm referring to above, and ties my criticism of the lawton article nicely back to the original point about player (mis)behaviour:
Oh dear. It seems that the entire England squad are traitors. Nothing like patriotism for befuddling a moral issue, after all. "So much for pride in your country," the Daily Mail said in its bewildering way. "Who the HELL do you think you are?" asked the Daily Mirror. "Treachery," it added. "Pampered playboys betray our trust."
Overpaid and treacherous, arrogant and unthinkingly selfish. That's the England football team. Don't quite know where the bit about money gets in, but it's a powerful factor in concentrating people's minds. "Overpaid" is the first insult hurled at any professional athlete (and if you can't hear the squeak of envy in the accusation you are stone deaf).
The England team have wished on themselves almost as much bad press as if they had been taking part in a gang-rape. Worse, in some ways. Rapists don't get called traitors, after all. This raises two intriguing questions. The first is why such an intemperate reaction is necessary, and the second is to what extent the players deserve it.
Let's start with the second part. We often complain that footballers are wrapped up in their own selfish lives, in their own selfish world, unable to see anything but self-interest and the narrow concerns of a game awash in self-importance. What the England rebels have done is to take a step back from that stereotype.
It is popularly believed that football stars are unprincipled. The great thrust of the opinion-mongering on the issue of the players' threatened strike has been focused on their lack of principle. But the entire bloody issue happened because they took a stand on a matter of principle.
It wasn't about money, it wasn't about any kind of commercial deal, it wasn't about stardom. It all came about because they believed — with great sincerity — that an injustice had been perpetrated. What is more, they believed that it was something they should try to put right. This is not treacherous, is it?
If it is, it is the kind of thing that E. M. Forster wrote about when he hoped he would have the courage to betray his country before he betrayed his friend. The players believed that Rio Ferdinand had had a shabby deal. They believed that the decision not to allow him to play for England was wrong, in moral and in footballing terms.
...
This, it seems to me, is grown-up and responsible. It was an attempt to do the right thing: for their friend, for their team, for their sport, for their country.
Radiohead
05-03-2004, 15:19
Ben
How then is it that footballers seem to get themselves into these situations far more than other sportsmen?
When did you last hear of a bunch of F1 drivers, cyclists, rugby players et al being accused of this sort of thing? Perhaps because it's very rare that other sports offer such inflated rewards after often little apparent achievement. Football's problems are mirrored in American Football and Basketball - 2 other sports that make millionaires of teenagers. Coincidence? I think not.
I think that the problem is endemic within football - far too much, far too young, and with the clubs happy to pay very average players stupid money.
(anyway you support United so your opinions are all mad anyway ;) )
Welshlad
05-03-2004, 15:33
Originally posted by BlueDwarf
Those pesky "unedicated" footballers, eh?
:p ;)
haha! I deserved that! shame on me!
Now if only I could get rich, I could buy a proper edication!
:lol:
Ben Martin
05-03-2004, 15:38
Originally posted by Radiohead
(anyway you support United so your opinions are all mad anyway ;) ) haha! good point! :D
i'm not saying it's not a serious issue. i'm not saying it isn't something that certain clubs need to look at certain players for. and i'm not saying that there isn't a link between the amount of money some players earn at a young age and certain examples of their behaviour.
all i'm seeking to do above is to offer an antidote to the tabloid onslaught. to remove the block on rational, independent thought that invariably kicks in when people take up that manufactured fervour en masse. i'm saying that serious though these incidents are, they are blown out of proportion, made to look more serious, more wide-ranging and more frequent than they actually are by copy-editors who care about nothing other than circulation and their own egos.
the tabloids (and i include the mail in that) churn out their irresponsible "journalism" without the least interest in the truth. either the truth of what happened in this particular incident, or the truth behind the accusations of there being serious problems afoot in the game of football. all they're concerning themselves with is "will this story shift papers faster than we can print them? and can we be this sensational, and liberal with the truth and facts, without getting heavily sued?"
and i accept your comparisons to other sports, but it isn't an entirely even comparison as there are more individuals engaged in professional football than in professional cycling, rugby, F1.
so i'm not excusing such behaviour, i'm just saying these examples are being talked up beyond what they are, particularly insofar as relates to the game as a whole. moreover, there are far more positive examples of behaviour by professional footballers, but no-one really cares about reporting these as it isn't "news".
I can understand why Steffan Freund is innocent and has been released without charge.
He couldn't possibly have done anything as he absolutely never scores.
Originally posted by Ben Martin
haha! good point! :D
i'm not saying it's not a serious issue. i'm not saying it isn't something that certain clubs need to look at certain players for. and i'm not saying that there isn't a link between the amount of money some players earn at a young age and certain examples of their behaviour.
all i'm seeking to do above is to offer an antidote to the tabloid onslaught. to remove the block on rational, independent thought that invariably kicks in when people take up that manufactured fervour en masse. i'm saying that serious though these incidents are, they are blown out of proportion, made to look more serious, more wide-ranging and more frequent than they actually are by copy-editors who care about nothing other than circulation and their own egos.
the tabloids (and i include the mail in that) churn out their irresponsible "journalism" without the least interest in the truth. either the truth of what happened in this particular incident, or the truth behind the accusations of there being serious problems afoot in the game of football. all they're concerning themselves with is "will this story shift papers faster than we can print them? and can we be this sensational, and liberal with the truth and facts, without getting heavily sued?"
and i accept your comparisons to other sports, but it isn't an entirely even comparison as there are more individuals engaged in professional football than in professional cycling, rugby, F1.
so i'm not excusing such behaviour, i'm just saying these examples are being talked up beyond what they are, particularly insofar as relates to the game as a whole. moreover, there are far more positive examples of behaviour by professional footballers, but no-one really cares about reporting these as it isn't "news".
That's because you're not breaking the law when you're doing something positive.
And there have been several high profile sexual assault cases this season, which, to anyone, is a bit of a wake-up call.
Maybe they thought it was the only way they were going to score this year?
Have they found the ring leader? :|
Ben Martin
05-03-2004, 19:12
DrX, it's shocking and certainly of concern that there have been several cases in a relatively short space of time, but i don't see how that makes it a "wake-up call"? that would mean that this sort of thing is rife, happening all the time and players are getting away with it. i.e. that is is happening on a regular basis, throughout the sport and that someone needs to sit up and take notice.
but it isn't happening on that kind of scale, not even close. as i said before, i am not belittling the cases in question, but the fact remains that these incidents are few and far between. even just going on basic numbers, i.e. number of professional players in this country and how many of them have been involved in an incident like this. probably less than 0.01%.
and this is just an observation, not a dig, but it wasn't really necessary to quote my entire post, especially as it was right above anyway. just quote the relevant bit.
And now there is the usual intervention by the local MP from Leicester, Keith Vaz, who is appealing to allow the ones in the slammer to return to the UK.
He says something to the effect of not leaving them in a legal limbo and that they should be allowed to get on with their lives.
Not sure I agree with that. If they have allegedly broken the law in a country, then they are liable to the law process of that country, as unfair and out of line with the UK law system as it may seem to anyone.
Niraj
Originally posted by Mr Dubby
One of the players jailed was best mates with another player recently charged with a similar offence (case thrown out though) when they were at the same club together - they were toady good for nothing but footballers back then too and some of the things they thought they'd get away with just because of who they thought they were!!!!!???? :oh-hum:
I know who you're talking about, and they're not missed :(
Joke time
Appartently one of the Leicester City players was having his way with the German girl and she was screaming
''Nein.... Nein'' so the other 8 joined in!
;)
DrX, it's shocking and certainly of concern that there have been several cases in a relatively short space of time, but i don't see how that makes it a "wake-up call"?
I think it does. As you say in such a short space of time there have been several high profile cases where sexual assualt was involved--why? Has this been happening prior to the start of the season and just not been covered? Is this regular footballer's behaviour when out-on-the-town for fun? The vast majority of footballers would say no but there seems to be an emerging minority, bringing down the reputation of the game, themselves and - most importantly - breaking the law. So yes, it is a wake-uo call.
that would mean that this sort of thing is rife, happening all the time and players are getting away with it. i.e. that is is happening on a regular basis, throughout the sport and that someone needs to sit up and take notice.
It's not exactly rife but wouldn't you agree that more than once, with seperate footballers in seperate instances within a football season is an eye-opener? I certainly think it is. And as I've said it's brining down reputations and - most importantly - those involved are breaking the law. So, yes, someone needs to sit up and take notice -- and that'll probably be the players themselves who commit such disgusting acts.
but it isn't happening on that kind of scale, not even close. as i said before, i am not belittling the cases in question,
but the fact remains that these incidents are few and far between. even just going on basic numbers, i.e. number of professional players in this country and how many of them have been involved in an incident like this. probably less than 0.01%.
On the one hand you say you're not belittling the cases and then on the other you're saying how many footballers there are and how such cases are "few and far between". I'm talking about several incidents involving sexual assault in such a short period of time. This isn't Mike Tyson and the world of boxing, this involves various players from various teams, as I've said, bringing down the reputation of the game, themselves, their team-mates and breaking the law. Unless, of course, that it's not really that big a deal and, you know, so what, one rape here, one rape there, there's so many footballers and this kind of thing doesn't happen that often so--whatever. :oh-hum: I'm not addressing the majority but the minority who exist and are involved in the same game that millions love and other "good and decent" footballers partcipate in. It's like hooligan fans being paired with ordinary fans. There's a problem, it needs addressing. It's not a one-off, it could happen again and it has happened, several times. How many more times is this thing going to happen? Unless it's not that big a deal.
and this is just an observation, not a dig, but it wasn't really necessary to quote my entire post, especially as it was right above anyway. just quote the relevant bit.
Likewise, though I'm surprised you read into it unless you were confused about what I was reacting to?
Ben Martin
06-03-2004, 18:55
Originally posted by DrX
Is this regular footballer's behaviour when out-on-the-town for fun? The vast majority of footballers would say no but there seems to be an emerging minority, bringing down the reputation of the game, themselves and - most importantly - breaking the law.interesting, as that sums up what i've been saying pretty nicely. as i've said several times, i do think both the incidents themselves and the relatively high number of them recently are cause for concern ... just not cause for wild tabloid witchhunts, and fans of other sports and casual football fans to brand the entire sport diseased.
it's like every discussion or argument on these forums has to be broken down into black and white. which is a nonsense. it's like i'm being told that "either this is a national disgrace or it isn't. you can only pick one, so which is it?" !! there's no middle ground, there's no shades of grey. when in reality there is, of course, both. as there is in any argument, over any issue.
just because i'm not towing the tabloid/football-bashing line doesn't mean i think that these incidents are insignificant, nor that there isn't potentially a problem afoot. and i've been quite clear in pointing that out. so as for your question about 'do i think it's an eye-opener?' - of course i do. things are just being blown even further out of proportion and the tabloid press has behaved irresponsibly.
On the one hand you say you're not belittling the cases and then on the other you're saying how many footballers there are and how such cases are "few and far between". I'm talking about several incidents involving sexual assault in such a short period of time.involving a very small minority of professional players in this country. there's no getting away from that. how many times do i have to say that it is still important and of concern? and yes, certain people do need to sit up, take notice and keep an eye on the situation. but that doesn't mean the nation should lose it's collective head and go off half-cocked on a tabloid whim.
Unless, of course, that it's not really that big a deal and, you know, so what, one rape here, one rape there, there's so many footballers and this kind of thing doesn't happen that often so--whatever.that is deliberately misrepresenting what i have said. moreover, my posts above prove that that is not what i'm saying, and anyone with the slightest bit of common sense on here can see that. my point, again, is that while there have been a worrying number of rape accusations (but even if they all turn out to be true) the vast majority of professional players have never been involved in such behaviour. therefore it is unfair to tarnish the entire game. yes, certain players have indeed tarnished the game's image but there is no evidence to say that the game as a whole (i.e. most of its players) is blighted by this problem.
Likewise, though I'm surprised you read into it unless you were confused about what I was reacting to?i didn't follow that bit. it was in response to me saying there was no need to quote my entire post. sorry if that sounded arsey. it wasn't, just a pet hate of mine as it makes the thread harder to follow.
i think we should try to leave it here though mate. i actually agree with most of what you are saying, and thought that should have been obvious from my earlier comments - certainly in the posts that followed my initial post. but it seems like unless i tow your line 100% you take it to mean that i disagree with you 100%. this is no way to have a discussion. i respect your opinion, and agree with most of it. and if we don't stop here we'll bore everyone to tears with each of us constantly quoting the other and coming back to every point. :)
Good post Ben though I don't want you to think I'm trying to get you to agree with (I'm not). There are some very good points you've raised.
I know what you mean by the "tabloid press" and the "out-of-proportioness" the media is infamous for but it should be noted that on some occasions such outcry is beneficial (if I can phrase it like that). Take the baby-rapist case from September 2003. Inital sentence was 5 years but the sentence was over-turned earlier this year after a public outcry fuelled by media coverage that could be described as "hysterical". Though there is, of course, a line to draw. The recent string of incidents should be no reason for the media to tarnish the majority of players or the game itself.
I sincerely hope that if the findings of the recent case are accurate, then the punishment should fit the crime.
It just infuriates me to see that "insufficient evidence" is grounds for the recent string of cases failing. The following news report covers this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3539365.stm
Like I said initally, great post and please don't take my remarks as being caustic or attacking. I fully respect your opinion and I know I'd much rather reply to one of your posts than some other people's I won't care to mention :suspect:
:)
Originally posted by Niraj
And now there is the usual intervention by the local MP from Leicester, Keith Vaz, who is appealing to allow the ones in the slammer to return to the UK.
He says something to the effect of not leaving them in a legal limbo and that they should be allowed to get on with their lives.
Not sure I agree with that. If they have allegedly broken the law in a country, then they are liable to the law process of that country, as unfair and out of line with the UK law system as it may seem to anyone.
Niraj
Why is it out of line with the UK system? I thought they'd been charged with a serious sexual assault and basically been remanded in custody? genuine question BTW - just wondered if I'd missed something?
If this is the case I think the way the BBC covered this on the news last night was appalling (i can't comment on other stations as I didn't look). They were making out that the 3 were hard done by and we should try and get them home ASAP. If this had been a bunch of guys off the street its likely it wouldn't have got a mention, never mind the loacl MP trying to get them home. They should be treated the same way an ordinary Spanish citizen would be treated in these cicumstances they shouldn't get special privileges because they're 'famous'.
And, if yesterday's paper was too be believed the fact that Leicester City have hired PD's to investigate the women's background is dreadful. I don't care if they are prostitutes in their spare time, thats irrelevant. The only thing Leicster should be bothered about is whether their players are guilty, not if one of the women was wearing a short skirt.
Personally I hope for the sake of football they are innocent and will be cleared quickly, however, I'm not holding my breath.
George vader
07-03-2004, 10:36
Originally posted by Sonick
Joke time
Appartently one of the Leicester City players was having his way with the German girl and she was screaming
''Nein.... Nein'' so the other 8 joined in!
;)
Disgracefull
;)
Originally posted by Sam
Why is it out of line with the UK system? I thought they'd been charged with a serious sexual assault and basically been remanded in custody? genuine question BTW - just wondered if I'd missed something?
Sorry Sam, maybe I put it wrongly. I agree with what you say, and that was the point I was trying to make.
It always seems to be the case that as soon as a Briton has been charged with something, or even found guilty, and put into jail in a foreign land, their families, MPs and local "supporters" swing into action trying to get them "back home".
I can understand family wanting to do that, as thats what family's there for, but this is an area that politicians shouldn't really being venturing into.
All IMHO, of course :):):)
Niraj
Any word on the new Walkers flavour yet?
Assault and Vinegar
Originally posted by Sam
Why is it out of line with the UK system? I thought they'd been charged with a serious sexual assault and basically been remanded in custody? genuine question BTW - just wondered if I'd missed something? The invesitgating judge has heard the initial reports and decided that there is enough evidence to warrant further investigation. They are therefore being held as this investigation continues, and it can be a fair time before any decision is taken on whether to charge and the actual trial taking place.
That said, as I have mentioned in other threads, I often find myself very uncomfortable when reading reports about Britons involved in trouble abroad. There seem to be certain sections of the media and government who immediately whip into action demanding that they are returned home, pick holes in the justice system of that country and so on. Considering the flaws in our own legal system, I find it extremely arrogant that they feel able to lecture other countries on their judicial process.
Ben Martin
07-03-2004, 17:39
DrX, to quote something Radiohead once said to me on these forums: "you are a gentleman, sir!". :thumbs:
as you say, nice to have the rare experience on here of getting into a discussion/difference of opinion about contentious issues and not being dragged into a childish flame war with some ignoramus. much appreciated.
you are of course quite correct than in many cases, in fact probably most, an outcry is justified and more importantly also a benefit to the public. the recent furore over mothers wrongly convicted for harming their babies being a case in point. in these cases it often seems like the media's prime concern really is the public interest (even if it's actually subordinate to getting their story), whereas football often causes them to lose their heads (on purpose?) and print irresponsible stories that take liberties with known facts and prejudice legal situations.
and i also agree about how infuriating it is that some cases aren't even examined properly (irrespective of going to trial or not) due to insufficient evidence. sure, the accused are innocent until proven guilty but what about the alleged victim? i'm sure that sometimes they are making it up, but what about the poor individuals who are telling the truth?
have to admit that i didn't know that particular case had dissolved back in january. yet another news event - along with dr shipman killing himself, gordon strachan announcing he was quitting saints, and united buying liam miller from celtic - that occured when i was on holiday and i find out about retrospectively to my great surprise! :)
Nice to see people on here making jokes about an alleged gang rape.
Can somebody explain why the difference...
1. Gang of men are alleged to have raped several women - public reaction - outrage - these men should be hanged, burned alive, castrated etc.
2. Gang of footballers are alleged to have raped several women - public reaction - oh poor boys, let's get them home away from those nasty foreign policemen
AngryFlower
08-03-2004, 13:25
Originally posted by DamienB
Nice to see people on here making jokes about an alleged gang rape.
Can somebody explain why the difference...
1. Gang of men are alleged to have raped several women - public reaction - outrage - these men should be hanged, burned alive, castrated etc.
2. Gang of footballers are alleged to have raped several women - public reaction - oh poor boys, let's get them home away from those nasty foreign policemen
More to the point:
3. Why these women who've allegedly been raped are found to be living in the La Manga area when they are apparently immigrants from Africa (NOT Germany), that they live with a German man, and they've been describing themselves laterally as PR Girls, Businesswomen AND Tourists. They appear to have little money, yet can afford 5 star hotel suites. :suspect:
There is still plenty about this situation which is :suspect: , clearly something happened out there, but making crass and idiotic jokes about the club's sponser clearly isn't the way forward.
I really can't see the team winning the Brum game at the weekend the way things are going.
Originally posted by DamienB
Can somebody explain why the difference...
2. Gang of footballers are alleged to have raped several women - public reaction - oh poor boys, let's get them home away from those nasty foreign policemen
Because there's a chance that the victims fabricated their claims because of who the accused are. If they were ordinary people there'd be no ulterior motive
What confuses me is why everyone in spain tries to hide from the cameras. It's not like we don't know what they look like :confused:
Keith Gillespie, Frank Sinclair and Paul Dickov have just been granted bail.
But may remain in jail until tomorrow while they get the money together. Will they play this weekened?
bigjonnyauk
20-03-2004, 13:15
im a leicester fan and it seems funny nobody has added to this thread since the papers revealed the girls
one was a madam and well into porn
the other were immigrents who married blokes for the sake of it and one was done for prostitution
also one of the woman who claimed she was raped had left her 2 children home alone aged 10 and 14
NOW THESE ARE RESPECTABLE WOMEN
PLEASE :nono:
Originally posted by bigjonnyauk
im a leicester fan and it seems funny nobody has added to this thread since the papers revealed the girls
one was a madam and well into porn
the other were immigrents who married blokes for the sake of it and one was done for prostitution
also one of the woman who claimed she was raped had left her 2 children home alone aged 10 and 14
NOW THESE ARE RESPECTABLE WOMEN
PLEASE :nono:
Regardless of who thw women are your Leicester players are not RESPECTABLE MEN
robzinski
20-03-2004, 18:26
Disapointed with the Leicester fans today, making light of rape claims by chanting "Score in La Manga, you couldn't score in La Manga" to Wayne Rooney today.
richardp
20-03-2004, 20:42
Originally posted by robzinski
Disapointed with the Leicester fans today, making light of rape claims by chanting "Score in La Manga, you couldn't score in La Manga" to Wayne Rooney today.
:lol:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4728879.stm
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