My rights on faulty items 1 year + 1 week old

[Chemical Brother]

On the 27th of Feb last year I bought two wireless Gamecube controllers from Comet Direct (http://www.comet.co.uk). They were never great and I guess that was to be expected as they were 3rd party products - They were just about okay for the few times they would be used for multiplayer.

Well now they aren't fit for the purpose they were bought for. This I realised a few days ago when I had a few friends around - much to my embarressment! I can sit right next to the GC and get either no response, flaky response or erratic behavior from either controller. That's with brand new batteries too. So in short they are no good, worthless.

I'm just gutted to find out that they are now a little over a week past 12 months. I'm hoping that as they are clearly barely used (ie not like what controllers normally look like after a year!) and that they clearly have a fault I should be okay. IIRC there's now a new or amended consumer law that extends upon the twelve months?

Can anyone help?
Thanks.

[andymc]

http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm
Tells you what rights you have but Question 3 might be pertinent.

Given they're wireless they may be affected by interference from nearby video senders, WiFi networks, DECT phones etc. nearby. Have you checked out sources of possible interference?

[dbilsborough]

In my experience (my wife is a solicitor), just quoting the Sale of Goods Act if a shop won't help you is enough. As long as you have not abused them in any way, and they still look like new you should have no problems. The 1 year thing doesn't really mean much under the law, unless as the page above states the item coulod quite reasonably wear out in a year.

[Chemical Brother]

Originally posted by andymc
http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm

Cheers, I'll check that out later.

[url]Given they're wireless they may be affected by interference from nearby video senders, WiFi networks, DECT phones etc. nearby. Have you checked out sources of possible interference?

Thought of that. I have two Nintendo 'Wavebirds' (their own make) and these always work well even after prolonged use basically until there's no juice left in the batteries. I've changed frequencies on the ones from Comet, I've unplugged the Wavebird's transmitters/controllers, I've unplugged my DECT phone and switched of the videosender and even tried one of the Comet controllers at a time and I still have the same problems.

I don't have a WiFi network but it's not inconceivable that a neighbour may have one - however, I brought the controllers around to my parents at Christmas (along with the GC) and they were flaky then (but not quite as bad) and it's a safe bet that there's no WiFi networks at theirs. Again, Nintendo's own controllers worked flawlessly.

[Chemical Brother]

Originally posted by dbilsborough
In my experience (my wife is a solicitor), just quoting the Sale of Goods Act if a shop won't help you is enough. As long as you have not abused them in any way, and they still look like new you should have no problems. The 1 year thing doesn't really mean much under the law, unless as the page above states the item coulod quite reasonably wear out in a year.

Cheers. What I'll do is ring them up tomorrow and explain the situation politely. They may be willing to be reasonable, if not I'll do like you said. The controllers are in an excellent condition as they've barely been touched. Though, saying that, most things I buy are in a good state even if used daily.

[Chemical Brother]

Well I've been to our local Comet today. All was going well until the assistant put the date into the computer. At this stage he went and got the manager. She was surly (borderline rude) and unhelpful.

She said that they're only obligated to refund or replace within a year. This was on every item sold in the store. I explained that the items were a little over a year and a week old and she jumped in to correct me and said "two weeks!". At that point I asked if it had been the day after 12 months would she still be taking the same stance she said yes.

I kept mentioning the Sales of Goods Act and she kept replying with "12 months". Asked if she thought it was reasonable for any item in their store to fail a year and a day after purchase she said it wouldn't be the stores problem. No, it would be a matter the customer would have to take up with the manufacturer. She must've known some of the Act (and conveniently forgot the rest) as she said that I might be able to make a claim against the cost of repairs via small claims.

I really wish I'd had a print out of the DTI fact sheet (my printer doesn't work!) as it really would've helped my case. It'd also have helped if that branch of Comet had had customers at the time as the customer services desk is right next to the expensive TVs - I suppose I would've been treated better if customers browsing for a new TV saw how former customers are treated.

[Chemical Brother]

Well I shot off an email to Comet yesterday and fair play to them they replied today. How's that for service!

Unfortunately it's one of the most patronising replies I've ever got from a company. You know the replies you got from companies as part of a school project? Well this was even more condescending! :brickwall

Some gems:

"Irrespective of the manufacturer, products do require some attention during their lifetime"

Well duh! But should a product (or products) that are clearly barely used (or to use an eBay term, 'mint condition') last only one year and a few days?

"This is the reason all the goods we sell are covered with a year’s guarantee"

No, Comet! The reason you do that is because of the law. And the reason they're seemingly wriggling out of their responsibilites regarding the Sale of Goods Act is, in my mind, because their hard-sale extended warranties would be worth even less if people knew their rights.

[utero]

"They were never great "

Then why wait till now to do something about it :confused:

[Ed Parsons]

This sort of thing was featured on BBC's 'Watchdog' programme several months ago. They said that if the goods become defective sooner than is reasonable (even if it's over one year) then you are still entitled to recourse against the RETAILER under the Sale of Goods Act. They also stated that many shops take the "if you're aren't happy then sue us" attitude. If you really want to pursue the matter then try the Citizen's Advice Bureau. If Comet can see you're aware of the legal position and are willing to fight them then they might just give in.

[Chemical Brother]

Originally posted by utero
"They were never great "

Then why wait till now to do something about it :confused:

They were third-party joypads. Console owners know not to expect third-party accessories to be as good or work as well as genuine ones.

However they worked well enough for the few times I had two or three friends around who happened to be up for three or four multiplayer. I should point out that it's rare that when mates are around they can be bothered to play videogames - So these controllers are in pretty much the same state as when bought.

Now they don't work. You push the joystick up and you may go up but you're more likely than not to go left, right or down. Before there were occasional glitches in menus but during gameplay they worked fine. Now, they simply can't be used.

I guess the moral of the story is buy branded/official licenced products and when products aren't 101% okay take/send them back for a full refund within days. Oh, and not to buy from Comet.

[Chemical Brother]

Originally posted by Ed Parsons
This sort of thing was featured on BBC's 'Watchdog' programme several months ago. They said that if the goods become defective sooner than is reasonable (even if it's over one year) then you are still entitled to recourse against the RETAILER under the Sale of Goods Act.

That's what I'd gathered from reading the link to the DTI's site andymc gave out. But it's good to hear it repeated in non-legalese.

If Comet can see you're aware of the legal position and are willing to fight them then they might just give in.

The manager in my local branch was having none of it. I thought I'd stand a better chance with emailing them but despite me mentioning the Act I got nowhere. Might try a different email address or phoning head office. If I get nowhere on that route then there's CAB but in the meantime I'll pen an email to the manufacturer.

[Tyler Durden]

Why not get Trading Standards on the case ?

I thought that the retailer was responsible for refund/replacement/repair of goods for upto 6 years after purchase. I believe that it all boils down to how long you'd reasonably expect the goods to last.

[andymc]

I would also contact the manufacturer to see if you can get them replaced - your rights are with the retailer but the manufacturer may be more helpful and doing that doesn't proclude you from chasing Comet as well.

[Chemical Brother]

I got in contact with the manufacturer and they said they're willing to have a look at them. Not only that but I looked at one of those warranty slips that manufacturers often slip in with their products. Usually these are just the year you're which doesn't mean much as you're without doubt entitled to that with the shop themselves. However, on closer inspection it says this:

Your 4Gamers product is guaranteed against any defects due to faulty material or workmanship at any time after purchase, and we promise to replace it with the same or similar model, at our option, free of charge, on production of a receipt or other proof of purchase.

Smallprint: This guarantee does not cover defects arising from accidental damage, misuse, or wear and tear, and is only available to the original purchaser of this product.

So I'm well and truly covered by the looks of it. But what do you lot reckon, should I send these back to the manufacter for replacement of should I pursue Comet? It seems straight forward but as soon as I deal with the manufacturer it absolves Comet altogether and this way I'll get replacement that may be as bad as what I already have.

I'm leaning towards the 4Gamers route, seems the one with least hassle. Good idea?

[Geoggy]

Originally posted by Chemical Brother
I got in contact with the manufacturer and they said they're willing to have a look at them. Not only that but I looked at one of those warranty slips that manufacturers often slip in with their products. Usually these are just the year you're which doesn't mean much as you're without doubt entitled to that with the shop themselves. However, on closer inspection it says this:



So I'm well and truly covered by the looks of it. But what do you lot reckon, should I send these back to the manufacter for replacement of should I pursue Comet? It seems straight forward but as soon as I deal with the manufacturer it absolves Comet altogether and this way I'll get replacement that may be as bad as what I already have.

I'm leaning towards the 4Gamers route, seems the one with least hassle. Good idea?


Mate - just read this thread. Just been through a similar situation with Currys and my XBox.

Basically - it is the retailers obligation to sort it out - you have 6 years from the purchase of the goods to make a claim.

The simple thing to do is call your local Trading Standards office. Explain the situation and you will get good advice - mine even offerred to write to the retailer - which in the trading standards officers own words "usually gets more of a positive repsonse than the customer paying a visit to the shop".

Question is - do you want this manufacturer to have a look / replace them if they have always been crap?

Call Trading Standards - will take you two minutes and i guarantee they will be of great help.

I got my XBox fixed and it was 2 years old.

G

[Bonzo Banana]

I used to work in a shop and get people coming in after the guarantee period expecting free repairs and it was damn annoying. Especially when many of the suppliers only offer a l year guarantee to the store itself anyway. I.e. buy stock sell it a month later and effectively the item is only guaranteed for the store for 11 months after sale. There's a 1 month period where the store itself will have to pay up. Of course this is minor electrical items not major ones. I can tell you the sooner you take faulty goods back to a store the better. Its better for you and the shop.

I personally don't think Comet are being unreasonable.

[ryonhilluk]

Well the way staff acted towards him sounds unreasonable to me.

[Geoggy]

Originally posted by Bonzo Banana


I personally don't think Comet are being unreasonable.

bonzo - its called "the law"

HTH

G

[jayok]

Originally posted by Bonzo Banana
I used to work in a shop and get people coming in after the guarantee period expecting free repairs and it was damn annoying. Especially when many of the suppliers only offer a l year guarantee to the store itself anyway. I.e. buy stock sell it a month later and effectively the item is only guaranteed for the store for 11 months after sale. There's a 1 month period where the store itself will have to pay up. Of course this is minor electrical items not major ones. I can tell you the sooner you take faulty goods back to a store the better. Its better for you and the shop.

I personally don't think Comet are being unreasonable.

The contract is with the retailer and the law states that goods should last a reasonable time after manufacture. The law does not state what is reasonable because each item will be different. It is accepted that it is reasonable to expect major electrical goods to last 5-6 years without defect and the law covers the buyer for repair. Within 6 months of purchase, it is the responsibility of the retailer to prove that the goods were not faulty. Over 6 months, it is the responsibility of the buyer to prove that the retailer sold goods that were faulty. For example, the buyer can bring the retailer to the small claims court if he can prove that a TV broke down after 4 years was the result of faulty workmanship or components or design.

This is one of the reasons why extended warranties are a waste of space. The sooner employees of retailers are trained on consumer law, the better.

[splobber]

Originally posted by jayok
It is accepted that it is reasonable to expect major electrical goods to last 5-6 years without defect and the law covers the buyer for repair.

If I paid say, £100 for a fridge and it lasted three years I would consider it fair use when it is on 24/7, 365. I certainly wouldn't hold anyone responsible after that time, but there are thousands out there who will exploit it and use the opportunity to exert their 'power' over retailers while talking the 6 year ruling literally with almost everything they buy..

The trouble with these ambiguous laws is that you inevitably end up with some wannabe lawyer taking their 6 year old battered £4.99 walkman back for a refund while spouting off garbled extracts from the Sale of Goods Act .

[jayok]

Originally posted by splobber
If I paid say, £100 for a fridge and it lasted three years I would consider it fair use when it is on 24/7, 365. I certainly wouldn't hold anyone responsible after that time, but there are thousands out there who will exploit it and use the opportunity to exert their 'power' over retailers.

The trouble with these ambiguous laws is that you inevitably end up with some wannabe lawyer taking their 6 year old battered £4.99 walkman back for a refund while spouting off garbled extracts from the Sale of Goods Act .

What if you paid £500 for your fridge, would you be happy to accept that it is reasonable to last only 3 years?

[splobber]

That's the point I'm making though. If I spend £100 then I would expect it to last a lot less then one that is five times the price. What compounds the situation is that Trading Standards can't really offer any definitive advice over how long something should last for.

My post revolves around the people who spend £20 on a shop soiled refubished managers clearance special fridge and who will still be haunting the shop six years later when it goes wrong.

[jayok]

Originally posted by splobber
That's the point I'm making though. If I spend £100 then I would expect it to last a lot less then one that is five times the price.

My post revolves around the people who spend £20 on a shop soiled refubished managers clearance special fridge and who will still be haunting the shop six years later when it goes wrong.

That is a valid point but I believe those cases are the minority. I bought a brand new Bosch dishwasher which failed 2.5 years after I bought it. I certainly expected it to last a lot longer so I asked the retailer for advice. They were sooo dismissive and stated that I should have bought an extended warranty. I researched a bit, got an independent engineers report on the fault and went back to the retailer for rectification. I contacted their head office stating the facts and reminding them of consumer law which they had to comply with. Eventually, they replaced the dishwasher and refunded me the cost of the independent report.