CDWow + no warning about selling copy protected 'CDs'

[keeperbear]

This Beatles Naked album arrived today from CDwow, but I notice that it is not a proper cd! It is one of these stupid copy protected formats. I resist calling it a cd, because technically it is not recorded in 'CD Digital Audio Format'.

I didn't notice the product description on CDWow mentioning this. Has anyone else noticed this? I have emailed them about it. I thought it worth warning others.

The least CDwow should do is include mention of the copy protection. They used to do so.

[Kevin Harper]

Why is it not a CD? Copy protection on Cd's is quite a common thing nowadays - I have bought several recently that have it. The only downside is that they don't play on my PC.

[keeperbear]

It doesn't have the 'CD Digital Audio' logo anywhere on the case. Do you see it anywhere? If I buy a music cd I expect to be able to play it on any cd player.

I can't believe this is happening more and more. I am going to give up buying cds if they turn out to be inferior copy protected formats.

[bumfrog]

Originally posted by Kevin Harper
Why is it not a CD? Copy protection on Cd's is quite a common thing nowadays - I have bought several recently that have it. The only downside is that they don't play on my PC.

yes it's a compact disc, just not a compact disc digital audio - as that is a standard that says it shouldn't have any copy protection on it as it is meant to work on any cd player.

[jayok]

It is not a digital audio compact disc. It does not play in all CD players

[smst]

CD-WOW have been dragging their feet about mentioning whether a disc is standards-compliant or not. This notice (http://ukcdr.org/issues/cd/bad/cdwow-20030328.txt) in March 2003 says as much, and since then they've apparently not done much about it. This email exchange (http://ukcdr.org/issues/cd/retail/20031018-cdwow.txt) took place in October 2003, and conveys a similar meaning.

Given that CD-WOW are eager to show up the dodgy practices of record companies when it comes to the BPI action against them (parallel importing and so on), it seems strange that they won't take a stand on the issue of defective discs. But perhaps it's not so strange... the BPI thing was going to damage sales (a £2 price hike takes the company away from the competitive price point that we'd all like to see CDs at) but I'd guess that only a small minority of customers know or care about the problem of goods that aren't fit for purpose.

What I don't understand is why online retailers aren't compelled by law to specifically note when a disc doesn't follow the Red Book standard. The implication in advertising such a disc as a CD is that... well, that it's a CD.

[molerat]

What is the problem. The copy protection on this one is rubbish. IIRC, disabling autoplay works. Clone CD had no problems and I have ripped it to MP3 as well. :norty:

[jayok]

What would happen if somebody buys the CD, opens it up and then tries it on their CD player (on a PC)? It does not work therefore they return it stating it is faulty. If the retailer did not inform the buyer that this type of CD is not CD Digital Audio and will not play in PC CD players, are they are required to refund?

[mikegray]

It doesn't meet Red Book standards. It's not an Audio CD. End of story.

http://www.disctronics.co.uk/technology/cdbasics/cd_books.htm

[keeperbear]

A very prompt reply from CDwow (as ever):

"Thanks for your message. I'm sorry that the item is not exactly as expected.

Copy Protection has been introduced directly by the record companies as a measure to help combat music piracy (which is ever more prominent). Unfortunately this will affect genuine users who use audio equipment including MP3 players and similar.

Although we fully support a genuine consumer, I'm afraid we are at the peril of the record companies who supply the product. They are extremely reluctant to advise as to which titles are copy protected, which in turn, makes it difficult for us to notify you.

We would be happy to have the item returned for a full refund, or an exchange for another title of the same value, if you wish. If either of these is an option, please return the item to the address below. Please remember to include a covering note stating your name, email address, order number, reason for return and action required (i.e refund or exchange - if
the latter, please also indicate the alternative title you require)."

This reply passes the buck a touch, but as least they offer a refund. The could simply look at the cd case as they are delivered from the supplier. I wouldn't have ordered the CD if it was described as a non-red book standard cd, so it just wastes my time. Cdwow are a brilliant retailer, but this is a problem.

If this is the current state of the cd market, I am going to defer my purchases as a protest.

[target]

Thats a prewritten reply :D I had that same one months ago when I bought a cd that wouldn't play in my car.
They provided a freepost Uk return address and credited me promptly though.

[edit]
Incidentally, cdwow said they could not provide and alternative but I emailed play and they checked and says theirs were unprotected

[AndyWilson]

I imagine it'd be quite a bit of work to physically check the sleeve of EVERY CD in their catalogue...

If you want to be 100% sure a CD isn't copy protected, buy it from Virgin or HMV, or even better, your local independant dealer.

It might cost a bit more but you can check the case yourself and you don't have the hassle of sending it back.

[Schrader]

I've returned over 20 CDs to Amazon.co.uk, Amazon.de and HMV.co.uk because they are not CDs. The shops never comment and refund all costs.

They may look like CDs but they are not. As soon as these companies start advertising them correctly I'll stop returning them (if they don't I'll return them once I've copied them).

Cheese slices fit in my CD player. That doesn't make a cheese slice a CD.

[EgonSpengler]

Originally posted by Schrader Cheese slices fit in my CD player. That doesn't make a cheese slice a CD. [/B]

:lol: :clap:

[kiran_mk2]

I thought that Philips (creators of audio CDs) was looking to sue the record companies over copy protection as they were pressing CDs with the CD digital audio logo on them? I haven't heard anything about this for a year. It's odd really because all the copy protections do is **** off people with older CD players/computers, it costs the studios millions (which they don't have because of "piracy"), and doesn't even work - the ultimate irony is that people with computers have to rip the CD to MP3 to be able to listen to it - which is something the protection is supposed to stop...

Every CD player instruction manual ever has said somewhere "do not insert discs without the CDDA logo".

[samuelowens]

I think Philips managed to get Macrovision (the folks ultimately behind the Midbar Cactus Data Shield copy 'protection' on CDs as well as DVD's beloved and ever so useful Macrovision Copy Protection which has stopped about 0 people trying to dub their DVD to VHS at the cost to the studios of $millions) to stop riddling the audio component of the CDs with burst errors.

Today's copy 'protection' now consists of illegal TOCs and a second session of heavily compressed WMA audio for those who like to listen to music on their PC (possibly to discourage such behaviour). Most new CD-ROM and DVD-ROM drives ignore it and it's a snap to strip the 'protection' off.

I ignore 'CDs' with the copy control logo. The record labels make this easy by releasing nothing much I want to buy which is copy controlled.

I have bought LIB...N from the US, where it was released as a proper CD. Next up for importation to Oz is Fountains of Wayne's Welcome Interstate Managers.

[Paul Moran]

Probably explains why my Sarah MacLachlan - Afterglow "CD" won't play in my Marantz CD-R, but plays in my Pioneer DVD player, Sony portable CD player, and PC DVD-ROM. (Disc claims to be copy protected, and does not carry the Compact Disc Digital Audio logo.)

[Much]

I had a fake CD once; the only thing it did work in was my computer. :|
Naturally, it went straight back, and I haven't bothered replacing it.

IMHO if it's being sold in the audio CD section (especially without a warning), you're quite entitled to expect the correctly manufactured product, not some low-grade useless imitation.
Do the right thing; complain and send it back. :thumbs:

All this kind of junk does is increases the demand for pirated versions that do work how they're supposed to without inconveniencing the end-user. :cuckoo:

[SheepDip]

The copy protection is a bit of a joke when an extremely common programme, which the majority of pc owners tend to have on their pc's, will not only happily play copy protected discs, but will rip to MP3, and even copy like for like without the slightest complaint.

Pirates will easily get around any copy protection, the only people it affects are those who aren't pc-literate enough - and they most often will be owners of originals who simply want a copy for playing in their car for example, avoiding the risk of damaging the original.

[Much]

Uh; no. I want a copy I can play in my hi-fi / CD / car / portable / etc. - I'd normally play the original, and not worry about damage - not even make this one 'backup' implied.

If tomorrow I was unable to get a playable version of a disc I really wanted, I'd actually start doing the above, as it's far easier to get the things working (and ripped) in a computer than anything else; and it wouldn't be for backup purposes either - I'd promptly trash the offending original!
Or purchase a working pirate version off the market in the first place and cut out all the hassle.

[Paul Moran]

Originally posted by Much
Do the right thing; complain and send it back. :thumbs: No point really. I've just bought a Denon ADV-M71 (to replace the broken Denon CD micro unit in my bedroom), and it also plays OK in that. So since I can now play the CD in the 3 rooms in which I might listen to CDs, and since I got it for a bargain price of £7.62 from their USA site, I'm going to keep it.