View Full Version : My Dutch 'Ichi' Has a BBFC '18' Cert! [IMAGES ADDED]
I finally got my copy of the 2 disc uncut 'Ichi: The Killer' from ********* but when I opened it I wasn't expecting to see a printed BBFC '18' certificate on it! And all the text on the box was in English.
Is this right? I thought as it was a Dutch DVD, then it wouldn't have a BBFC certificate on it. The picture on ********* also only shows the Dutch '16' certificate and the box is in Dutch.
Just wanting to check to see if anyone else noticed this? I'm sure it's the right DVD as it's the same cover art and comes in the slipcase. The running time is shown as 124 mins.
I'm going to watch this DVD this week. I can't wait! I watched the trailer and it looks good! :thumbs:
Thanks,
Psycho :nuts:
just at a guess, but if it has bbfc on it then it isn't dutch, hence the the the first b standing for british....
Originally posted by bumfrog
just at a guess, but if it has bbfc on it then it isn't dutch, hence the the the first b standing for british....
That's why I brought it up. The '18' certificate isn't as big as what is usually on an English DVD. It also is only on the back of the slipcase. I almost 100% sure that this is the Dutch DVD (I wont know until I watch if and find out if it's uncut) apart from the small BBFC '18' logo on the back and the English text.
Psycho :nuts:
the only dutch dvd I own (dawn of the dead) doesn't have a bbfc logo on it.
Does it have any dutch writing on it at all?
Originally posted by bumfrog
the only dutch dvd I own (dawn of the dead) doesn't have a bbfc logo on it.
Does it have any dutch writing on it at all?
I don't think it has any! :(
I've got the Dutch 'Caligular' and that doesn't have a BBFC logo! It just has the standard '16' Dutch logo.
I'm confussed! :confused:
I've checked the discs and they seem okay, I'm just a bit worrid this might not be uncut. It does say 124 mins though. Well after I watch it, I'll check up on some scenes to check if it is uncut.
Psycho :nuts:
Dear Mr Echo
19-01-2004, 15:41
Is the cert actually printed though or on a sticker? The SE Eraserhead that I bought from MT had a BBFC 18 sticker on the outside shrink wrapping. I'm sure MT just put them on there for some reason probably best not asked ;)
My Ichi that I had from Holland didn't have a BBFC cert.
Andrew
Originally posted by Dear Mr Echo
Is the cert actually printed though or on a sticker? The SE Eraserhead that I bought from MT had a BBFC 18 sticker on the outside shrink wrapping. I'm sure MT just put them on there for some reason probably best not asked ;)
Andrew
I'm 100% sure that it is printed onto the slipcase and sleve of the DVD case. Also all the text is in English and that isn't a sticker! It's just a bit strange! :(
Psycho :nuts:
LouBarlow
19-01-2004, 15:49
The Dutch Ichi has a '16' symbol on the amaray and the writing is in Dutch.
You've been ad mate
Shingster
19-01-2004, 15:52
Most likely MT have sent you the wrong DVD, happened to a friend of mine who ordered the German DVD of Audition but recieved the R1. They should replace it if you get onto them.
But the R1 and R2 DVD have totaly different covers! This one I've got is identical to the Dutch DVD apart from having English text and a very small BBFC '18' logo on the back.
I'll scan it in tonight and post it up here. I'm sure I've got the Dutch DVD but maybe with a new cover design... but I don't know why?! :(
Psycho :nuts:
Could anyone let me know of any other ways to check if this film is the Dutch version apart from the film length? What about bar code number?
Also, mine didn't have booklet or chapter sheet inside the case.
Psycho :nuts:
irturner
19-01-2004, 16:08
thought the dutch ichi had the same cover but came in a slip case hence looked different. Plus isn't the UK version a single disk and the dutch a double disk and theres no indication of any other dutch release
Jimmyboy
19-01-2004, 16:08
I'm looking at my 2-disc Dutch release of Ichi and some stand out points would be that - A) There's no BBFC 18 cert on it, B) There's a Holland 16 cert on it, C) The writing (IE plot description) on the back of the case is in Dutch.
That's really all you need to know to realise you've got the wrong version mate, sorry. Craig at ********* is good at sorting out these things though.
LouBarlow
19-01-2004, 16:08
Mine doesnt have a booklet, but the chapter list is the reverse of the amaray cover...in English :p
Mine was from ********* coincidentally...
LouBarlow
19-01-2004, 16:09
Yeah mines the same as Jimmyboys...
Originally posted by Jimmyboy
I'm looking at my 2-disc Dutch release of Ichi and some stand out points would be that - A) There's no BBFC 18 cert on it, B) There's a Holland 16 cert on it, C) The writing (IE plot description) on the back of the case is in Dutch.
That's really all you need to know to realise you've got the wrong version mate.
But if I haven't got the Dutch version, American version or the English version what do I have? :confused:
R1 Cover:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000CABGW.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
R2 (UK) Cover:
http://www.play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=R2&title=114751&p=57&c=&g=72
R2 (Dutch) Cover:
http://www.*********.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=264
Mine is the same as the pictures shown of the R2 9Dutch) cover but with English text and BBFC logo.
Psycho :nuts:
The Dude
19-01-2004, 16:14
I think they add BBFC certificates on the R1 next day delivery titles and I know this isn't a next day delivery title, but they must have done it for all sorts of reasons. It is a bit strange though I'll give you that, maybe give Craig an e-mail?
Originally posted by The Dude
I think they add BBFC certificates on the R1 next day delivery titles and I know this isn't a next day delivery title, but they must have done it for all sorts of reasons. It is a bit strange though I'll give you that, maybe give craig an e-mail?
I've tired e-mail them about my order before and have had no reply! I ordered 'Ichi: The Killer', 'House of 1000 Corpses' and 'Dances with Wolves: SE - Leather' about 3 weeks ago! I only got 'Ichi' on Friday and I think I might get '1000 Corpses' today but no dispatch e-mail for 'Dances with Wolves'!
I'll give it a go though.
Psycho :nuts:
LouBarlow
19-01-2004, 16:20
Originally posted by Psycho
Mine is the same as the pictures shown of the R2 9Dutch) cover but with English text and BBFC logo.
Psycho :nuts:
That picture is of the slip-case, the amaray has a different cover.
irturner
19-01-2004, 16:23
e-mail ?!!! Surely a safer bet to use their user forum to get a response
Originally posted by LouBarlow
That picture is of the slip-case, the amaray has a different cover.
Yeah, the slip case is the same as that picture and the amaray has a different picture to the other pictures I've posted. It has Ichi with two spikes and a 'groovy' shirt on.
Psycho :nuts:
Jimmyboy
19-01-2004, 16:31
Originally posted by Psycho
But if I haven't got the Dutch version, American version or the English version what do I have? :confused:
R1 Cover:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000CABGW.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
R2 (UK) Cover:
http://www.play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=R2&title=114751&p=57&c=&g=72
R2 (Dutch) Cover:
http://www.*********.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=264
Mine is the same as the pictures shown of the R2 9Dutch) cover but with English text and BBFC logo.
Psycho :nuts:
********* in pirate shocker ?!.:D :nuts:
I've just e-mailed *********. I'll also scan in the cover art tonight and post them here to show you all I'm not mad...
Psycho :nuts:
essexboyuk68
19-01-2004, 17:01
Originally posted by irturner
e-mail ?!!! Surely a safer bet to use their user forum to get a response
afaik, the forum is currently down still - DNS issues which should resolve shortly
essexboyuk68
19-01-2004, 17:28
hmmmm this is a mystery as MT have only ever stocked the Dutch uncut release. Maybe the packaging has been changed by the distributor? (in a similar way perhaps to the way that euro dvd company EC entertainment put 18 certs on their release of Fulci's The Black Cat etc)
BiscLimpkit
19-01-2004, 18:24
Quick question about Dutch DVD...
...are the extras subtitled in English? TA! :thumbs:
essexboyuk68
19-01-2004, 18:41
yes they are
Jimmyboy
19-01-2004, 18:56
Gotta feel for Psycho though, all this hassle to find out what the heck ********* has sold him and when he finally gets to sit down and watch the film, he'll be hit with the realisation that it's actually fairly crap. :D
Roughneck
19-01-2004, 19:03
Odd one this... same distributor we have always used for this title.. so i have no idea.. like Essex has stated maybe the studio has changed the cover... i don't see them so i cannot coment although i am very curious to say the least. :confused:
unrealnils
20-01-2004, 06:31
Originally posted by Jimmyboy
Gotta feel for Psycho though, all this hassle to find out what the heck ********* has sold him and when he finally gets to sit down and watch the film, he'll be hit with the realisation that it's actually fairly crap. :D :D
I've got the scans of the slipcase and cover but I can't seem to upload them to my Lycos web space! :brickwall
Can I e-mail them to someone who can host them and post them here? They are quite big, about 1MB for each of the two pictures.
Psycho :nuts:
mercurialdeposit
20-01-2004, 10:02
Originally posted by Jimmyboy
Gotta feel for Psycho though, all this hassle to find out what the heck ********* has sold him and when he finally gets to sit down and watch the film, he'll be hit with the realisation that it's actually fairly crap. :D
:nono:
I had to reduce the quality to upload them but here are the cover scans:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/psychoharwood/IchiSlipcase.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/psychoharwood/IchiCover.jpg
You can see the BBFC '18' logo on the slipcase and cover. You can also see the blood drop on the front of the slipcase. This is where the Dutch '16' logo should be but it looks like it's been removed from the original image as you can see the creased page effect through the blood.
Psycho :nuts:
bertieblueshirt
20-01-2004, 10:32
Jimmyboy - You are so wrong.
Psycho - I have the dutch release and haven't seen the UK cut version but I'd be prepared to bet that the opening sequence of the horrific prostitute beating by the pimp is now either one second long or removed completely.
If this scene is intact then you are certain to have the uncut version. Unless you are having us on! (your cover is identical to mine with the exception of the BBFC 18 logo and the English writing on the rear).
Originally posted by bertieblueshirt
Unless you are having us on! (your cover is identical to mine with the exception of the BBFC 18 logo).
I'm not having you on. I've e-mailed ********* about this. Is your cover in English or Dutch? The quality of my scans isn't that good but you can still see that the text on the back of the slipcase is in English and this is the same on the amary box cover (not as clear due to the scan quality).
Psycho :nuts:
EDIT: You covered some of this in your post now.
bertieblueshirt
20-01-2004, 10:57
Psycho - Soz mate, just seemed very unlikely cos the original UK release looks nothing like the Dutch Worldwide Cinema one.
The descriptions on the rear of both the slip case and the amary box cover of my disc is in Dutch but WELCOME TO ICHI'S WORLD is in English for some reason.
If your disc is cut in line with the BBFC's decision last year- how dare they say it's uncut! This is misleading!
If it's uncut then WTF is a BBFC logo doing on there?
Check that first scene out if you get a chance and let us know if it's intact or not (it's so graphic it'll be pretty obvious if it's cut or not IMO).
Originally posted by bertieblueshirt
Psycho - Soz mate, just seemed very unlikely cos the original UK release looks nothing like the Dutch Worldwide Cinema one.
The descriptions on the rear of both the slip case and the amary box cover of my disc is in Dutch but WELCOME TO ICHI'S WORLD is in English for some reason.
If your disc is cut in line with the BBFC's decision last year- how dare they say it's uncut! This is misleading!
If it's uncut then WTF is a BBFC logo doing on there?
Check that first scene out if you get a chance and let us know if it's intact or not (it's so graphic it'll be pretty obvious if it's cut or not IMO).
Sorry, I should have mentioned that I did a quick check of the films length and it was 2 hours 4 minutes long (124 minutes). so it is the uncut version. So why does it have a BBFC '18' logo?! :confused:
I still haven't watch the film (so don't give to much away) but once I do, I'll double check with the BBFC site for cuts.
Psycho :nuts:
bertieblueshirt
20-01-2004, 11:08
Psycho - sorry, didn't realise you hadn't seen it yet.
Even though it's 124mins long the cuts could have been substituted, so that is not proof of its uncut status. Like I said, if the opening scene is wincingly graphic then you got the uncut bad boy.
Hope you enjoy the film.
Originally posted by bertieblueshirt
Psycho - sorry, didn't realise you hadn't seen it yet.
Even though it's 124mins long the cuts could have been substituted, so that is not proof of its uncut status. Like I said, if the opening scene is wincingly graphic then you got the uncut bad boy.
Hope you enjoy the film.
Fingers crossed I get to see it this week. Going to watch it with the girlfriend! :thumbs: But we're watching 'Alias: Series 1' at the moment but I could do with a brake. I've then got to watch 'House of 1000 corpses' with her! :nuts:
Well I've got my fingers crossed that it's uncut. I'm almost 100% sure it is as I've heard the English version is missing 13 minutes. But we'll see.
Psycho :nuts:
bertieblueshirt
20-01-2004, 11:23
Psycho -
No mate, the Hong Kong version is cut by 13 minutes. The UK version is missing around 3 mins 25 secs. This from the BBFC web site (press release from 2002 regarding the cinema version. UK DVD version is subject to same cuts):
"
BBFC CUTS SEXUALISED VIOLENCE IN JAPANESE FILM
The BBFC has required 11 cuts (approximately three and a quarter minutes of screen time) to the Japanese cinema film Ichi the Killer. The cuts have been made to remove extreme sexualised violence. These are the most substantial cuts required by the BBFC to an 18 rated film since 1994."
There is more detailed info on the site but I didn't include it cos it contained spoilers.
Hope your girlfriend has a strong stomach mate! It's hardly first date material.
Esteban - CotS
20-01-2004, 12:32
Like I said, if the opening scene is wincingly graphic then you got the uncut bad boy.
the opening scene is fairly nasty on the HKL/Premier Asia disc too. iirc, the majority of the cuts occur later on in the film when... the twins kidnap the girl and torture her.
though thinking about it, the opening scene did seem to be longer on the HK dvd i saw so it could have been cut, but i've yet to see the uncut version of this film so can't really say.
as regards to the later torture scene, we see a very brief shot of her screaming, but then the substitutions kick in and we just see two bodyguards standing by a door.
this is fairly obvious where the cuts are, as during the commentary Bey Logan and Alien Sun comment about how nasty this scene is, and you can even hear them both whincing occasionally.. yet all we see if two guys standing by a door.
they even comment that this uncut version (they are watching) is the only one worth seeing. which does add to the annoyance somewhat. something similar happened on the commentary for The Killer, Logan commentated that he wasn't sure whether the BBFC would let "that" shot in. yet he's commentating on the same uncut version we are watching.
ryonhilluk
20-01-2004, 12:32
Originally posted by Jimmyboy
Gotta feel for Psycho though, all this hassle to find out what the heck ********* has sold him and when he finally gets to sit down and watch the film, he'll be hit with the realisation that it's actually fairly crap. :D
:lol:
bertieblueshirt
20-01-2004, 12:45
I want to reply to Esteban but fearful of spoilers. How do I do that hidden spoiler thing?
[ spoiler ] Your Hidden Text [ / spoiler ]
But get rid of the spaces :)
Esteban - CotS
20-01-2004, 12:49
ooo good point, sorry, i'll edit my post a bit...
do this though
{spoiler**this is a spoiler{/spoiler**
replace {'s and **'s by corresponding ['s and ]'s
edit: never mind. ;)
bertieblueshirt
21-01-2004, 11:50
Thanks guys:
Esteban:
With regard to the later tourture scene - It's an absolute certainty that the BBFC will have cut the nipple slicing scene from the UK version. I could barely believe my eyes when I saw it for the first time and there is no way that would get through uncut. With regard to the other cuts (remember there are 11 cuts in total) my money is on the protracted beatings of the prostitute by the pimp, both in the opening scene and later in the film (before Ichi does us all a favour by slicing the toerag in half). In the opening scene in particular the camera seems to leer at the woman's suffering plus there's flashes of boob which is another no-no.
I reckon that accounts for all the cuts. The BBFC wouldn't have a problem with the comic book style violence and mayhem that makes up the rest of the film nowadays, just the sexualised violence.
The cut scenes are nasty but should we as adults be prevented from seeing such material?
I see you can order an uncut version from the Ichi The Killer (http://www.ichithekiller.com) web site for €29.99 (euros). Has anyone bought from this site before?
I would imagine that the 18 logo thing is just a marketing thing, the people who design the sleeve probably realised that the disc was selling well abroad and thought that putting the logo on it would make it legal and thus they could export loads more. They're Dutch, they wouldn't know the ins and outs of our weird system.
bertieblueshirt
21-01-2004, 13:37
Good point KRW.
Psycho - would really like to know if yours is cut or not when you get around to watching it.
Shingster
21-01-2004, 14:48
I'd be more concerned about wether it's a bootleg rather than the UK or Dutch version. Them cover designs stink of E-bay merchants to me. :D
Originally posted by KRW
I would imagine that the 18 logo thing is just a marketing thing, the people who design the sleeve probably realised that the disc was selling well abroad and thought that putting the logo on it would make it legal and thus they could export loads more. They're Dutch, they wouldn't know the ins and outs of our weird system.
So if the BBFC found out about this then they could be in trouble? Do you think they'd have to recall the discs a bit like the 'Sleepaway Camp' box sets with the Red Cross logo on it? Could this mean that my copy might be worth a bit on eBay in a few years? :D
Psycho :nuts:
bertieblueshirt
21-01-2004, 15:52
If it's uncut (which we won't know until you've watched it and let us know if certain scenes are intact), is a legitimate release rather than a boot and carries a BBFC 18 logo then there a good chance that the Soho Square gang would be interested in talking to whoever produced it. It's a well known fact that the BBFC had a hand in stopping the original UK distributors of Eric Stanze's Scrapbook from selling the uncut version in the UK (different issue I know but it shows that they have got involved in such things in the past).
essexboyuk68
21-01-2004, 17:26
a) I'm inclined to agree with KRW's point of view...
b) The BBFC might not like it, but as it's distributed by a company outside of the U.K., there's probably not much they could do surely
Originally posted by essexboyuk68
a) I'm inclined to agree with KRW's point of view...
b) The BBFC might not like it, but as it's distributed by a company outside of the U.K., there's probably not much they could do surely It's almost certainly a registered trademark/copyrighted by the BBFC, and thanks to the EU that means they could do something about it if they knew about it.
I agree with the first half but not the second half of KRW's post;).
[edit] Yep, this page (http://www.bbfc.co.uk/website/2000About.nsf/Legal%20-%20Website%20Terms%20&%20Conditions?OpenPage) confirms that the category symbols are registered trademarks of the BBFC.
Charles Bronson
23-01-2004, 23:45
Has anyone seen the R1 'Media Blasters' version?
I've just finished watching it now, and I swear the picture is cropped from a full screen to fit a 16:9
(Picture quality is rubbish too)
Is this movie in spoken in English or Japanese? If its Japanese has it got a dub?
Jimmyboy
24-01-2004, 17:20
Originally posted by Kronik
Is this movie in spoken in English or Japanese? If its Japanese has it got a dub?
Many of the characters are bi-lingual but 80% of it is spoken in Japanese. Yes it does have an English dub although I'm not sure why you would want it.
Sorry I haven't replies quicker. My work have blocked this site! :cry:
Just to say that my version is uncut! :thumbs:
Excellent film! :thumbs:
Psycho :nuts:
The Dude
24-01-2004, 18:58
What did your girlfriend think of it? If you watched it with her that is. :)
Originally posted by The Dude
What did your girlfriend think of it? If you watched it with her that is. :)
She thought it was good as well! :thumbs:
We've got to watch House of 1000 Corpses at some piont! :D
Psycho :nuts:
Jimmyboy
24-01-2004, 23:30
Originally posted by Psycho
Sorry I haven't replies quicker. My work have blocked this site! :cry:
Just to say that my version is uncut! :thumbs:
Excellent film! :thumbs:
Psycho :nuts:
Yeah but what dvd release do you actually have ?.
bertieblueshirt
26-01-2004, 08:20
Glad you enjoyed it Psycho. I went on a serious Takeshi Miike hunt after seeing Ichi for the first time. Unfortunately the only other films by the same director I can recommend are Fudoh and Audition IMO.
BiscLimpkit
26-01-2004, 14:47
Originally posted by Jimmyboy
Yeah but what dvd release do you actually have ?.
Yeah I also wanna know! ;)
Just found out that my 'Ichi: The Killer' is the really RARE, uncut, now OOP version! I just saw a few copies on eBay going for $200+!!! :eek: :nuts:
:suspect: ;)
Psycho :nuts:
BiscLimpkit
29-03-2004, 15:01
Just watched this (uncut of course). Got a loan of the Dutch R2 beast. I absolutely love it but it's pretty sad that it got censored by th BBFC.
Why is the Bey Logan commentry not on the Dutch R2???
Originally posted by BiscLimpkit
Just watched this (uncut of course). Got a loan of the Dutch R2 beast. I absolutely love it but it's pretty sad that it got censored by th BBFC.
Why is the Bey Logan commentry not on the Dutch R2???
So was the version you got on loan the same one I've got with the really small BBFC 18 cert on it?
Is it censored then? I'm really confussed!
It's Dutch, it's uncut but it's censored by the BBFC!! :searchme:
What region version has the commentry on it?
Psycho :nuts:
essexboyuk68
29-03-2004, 18:28
you're misreading the post made by BiscLimpkit
the dutch release is NOT cut or censored, and furthermore the cuts by the BBFC that are mentioned are re: the u.k. disc!
the cut uk version is the one that has the commentary
irturner
29-03-2004, 19:11
the uncut version of Ichi wouldn't be an 18 certificate since they had to cut the film to get an 18 certificate therefore putting 18 on the cover would be considered misleading by the BBFC
essexboyuk68
29-03-2004, 19:43
Originally posted by irturner
therefore putting 18 on the cover would be considered misleading by the BBFC
makes no difference as to the uncut status of the dutch release though and would certainly not be the first time a foriegn distributor has made unauthorised use of a BBFC logo on its packaging.
BiscLimpkit
29-03-2004, 20:46
Sorry Psycho I worded it wrong (:nuts: ).
The version I borrowed is the same one as yours (but with Dutch writing).
The UK R2 is cut and I think that's sad. But it has the commentry that is not on the Dutch version (which is equally sad).
Wohoah man if the Dutch R2 had the Bey Logan Commentry AND the Takashi Miike Commentry (on the R1) then it would be the best DVD in the world. IMO.
:thumbs:
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