I am Writing a serious script for Enterprise and need some info, can anyone help?

[willowtree]

Hi guys,

I am working on a script pitch for Enterprise. It’s a serious script, professionally composed in Movie Magic Screenwriter. Being a Brit, would I be eligible to submit the script? I have Rick Berman's contact address at the Paramount lot.


Cheers

[TheFly]

I believe it is general policy of most US TV shows not to accept unsolicited external script submissions. In other words, if you don't have an agent in LA, you don't have a chance.

[Dan]

Some info here.

http://talk.trekweb.com/articles/2001/07/23/995937543.html

[Dr Derek Doctors]

Generally speaking you can ask shows for their release form which basically absolves them of any future legal action if they don't like your script but later on produce an episode with elements that you feel may have been taken from your script. But I believe that the Star Trek shows have generally been a very closed-loop when it comes to where they get scripts from although with Enterprise still fairly early in it's (theoretical) seven year run you might be a bit luckier.

[Roy]

They tend to use stable writers, presumably because they are controllable.

However, if you encode the script with come subspace particles and emit a low frequency resonance you may have a chance.

I'll get me coat.

[willowtree]

What about freelance though? I read an article once that Trek often takes scripts from freelance writers. Again, I am not sure if they are to be US residents though. I am a bit confused and upset really. I'd love to contribute and I know this story I am working on, could potentially be one of Enterprise's best, not too brag like, but I know deep down that I can write good stories (when my mind is set, and I do underestimate my abilities). For me it’s not about originality, but to just tell a good story. I find audiences appreciate that much more than a failed concept or failed attempt at originality. Not to say my teleplay is unoriginal, but I just feel studios or people often think of 'original' as the best. But in this day and age, coming up with new material is hard.

I have Mr Bermans address, could I not just send him the teleplay when its complete? Or would there be absolutely no chance they'd even read it? I am sure if he just read the first 5 pages he'd be hooked (hopefully). One of the first things I think about in the morning and last thing at night, I fantasise about writing and making movies. Sad aint I? I am 20 years old and feel this desperate urge to actually do it, but fear doing it in some ways.

I know professional writers for movies and television have to be with the board of writers, cant remember its full name. But I know there are freelance writers, and Trek has had many submissions before. I think Enterprise's season one 'Dear Doctor' was a pitch. And then there is Nick Sagan, who worked freelance on Voyager. He has now gone on to write a book. But his pitch's to Trek go him started, got his name recognised. I have a list with literally hundreds of idea's for books, movies and tv shows. Granted most of them are potentially high priced projects (I think with a high budget mind most of the time, but not always).

Thanks for your help though guys, I do appreciate it. It means allot to me that you have offered me help and advice. And I promise that if I eventually do make it, I will do my best to help others.

[TheFly]

There's a difference between freelance and unsolicited scripts. As I said before, if you don't have any representation in the industry, you're unlikely to get anywhere. Sending stuff direct to Rick Berman will likely never reach him -- he probably gets sent numerous things like this every day, all of which are filed in the bin. The problem is the prospect of lawsuits and such if ideas contained in your script were to be used by them in the future: if they don't read any unsolicited submissions, you can't claim that they stole your ideas.

[willowtree]

So would there be any logical realistic way to do this? To get this damn script to them, to read and hopefully if they like it, to produce?

[Saber]

Get an agent!

[willowtree]

Originally posted by Saber
Get an agent!

How do I get one, and how much do they charge :(

[camaj]

As said above you can't just send them your script. They come to you not vice versa.

Getting an agent isn't easy and they don't "charge" anything but they do take a cut of your earnings. I used to be on a scriptwriting mailing list which knew this sort of thing inside out. Do some searching on scripts, scriptwriting etc and you'll turn up all the stuff you need to know.

The good news is you can send your script to the BBC (see the website) and they'll read it. They won't give you a job on Enterprise but it's possible that they'll see some potential in your script and that might lead to something else

[unicron]

I read that Enterprise doesnt have the open script policy that TNG, DS9 and Voyger had.

Probably don't anyone to come up with better stuff than the crap they write.:gag:

[The Beyond]

Probably not the reply you want, but your dreams of even getting the script read, let alone made are zero.

If you are seriously interested in writing then try writing short stories, radio plays, magazine articles - anything that you might have more chance getting produced/ published to show what you can do. You need to get yourself established if you want people to take you seriously as a writer.

The problem with Shows such as Star Trek is that they have such an active fanbase, and an awful lot of them will be submitting scripts on spec. convinced that their idea is totally original and will be the best thing to happen to the show.

If you've never written anything else other than this enterprise script, then you seriously have to consider whether you are a writer or a star trek fan who would like to write star trek adventures.

Don't give up though - try reading some of the excellent books available on the subject (I recommend mr "babylon 5" Strazynski's book on writing as an interesting intro to the world of professional script writing.

Don't forget, many writers will write anything to stay in their chosen profession. It would be a very lucky individual who only works on their dream project as a first commision.

[willowtree]

Originally posted by The Beyond
Probably not the reply you want, but your dreams of even getting the script read, let alone made are zero.

If you are seriously interested in writing then try writing short stories, radio plays, magazine articles - anything that you might have more chance getting produced/ published to show what you can do. You need to get yourself established if you want people to take you seriously as a writer.

The problem with Shows such as Star Trek is that they have such an active fanbase, and an awful lot of them will be submitting scripts on spec. convinced that their idea is totally original and will be the best thing to happen to the show.

If you've never written anything else other than this enterprise script, then you seriously have to consider whether you are a writer or a star trek fan who would like to write star trek adventures.

Don't give up though - try reading some of the excellent books available on the subject (I recommend mr "babylon 5" Strazynski's book on writing as an interesting intro to the world of professional script writing.

Don't forget, many writers will write anything to stay in their chosen profession. It would be a very lucky individual who only works on their dream project as a first commision.

I am a huge Star Trek fan yes, but I dont want to be limited to that. My script was a contribution to my love for Star Trek and my wonder for space. Just a one off really. I am still going to write it, even if it never gets made, becasue I can look back and say to myself 'I wrote that, I had an idea and commited it to paper'. I am also working on a 100 page Harry Potter novel (which I will gladly let anyone interested read), I will be getting that professionally bound for my collection. The reason I am working on something I know can NEVER be published is because I thought that to write for something I love as a first shot at writing, would gear me up for bigger things in the future. I am 20 years old and I have (no kidding) a Word document with 40 something ish pages (full) of ideas for novels, movies, cartoons, tv projects and more. Many of these ideas are fleshed out into paragraphs, even pages of desriptions. I know in my heart that I want to write, but I also have a burning passion for images (moving images to be precise). I am going to order that book you recommend, can you recommend any others also?

I know how to write scripts, I have Movie Magic Screenwriter (the software people like Francis Ford Coppola uses) and have experience of writing stories. But all the same, i'd appreicate some recommendations.

Its always a nagging thought I have, comments like yours dont help :cry: but they are the truth. Where do I start? I have so many ideas, so many projects I want to make. The problem with me is that I think BIG! Many of my movies are potentially High Budget movies, huge, epic scale movies. Not all of them, but many of them are. Put it this way, only Hollywood studios could afford to make them. Would this dampen my writing moreso? Or as Hollywood are always making high budget movies, is that a plus?

I am currently fleshing out a fantasy quadrilogy. If they were movies, each of this 4-parter would popentially cost roughly $200 million each to make. Does that give you an idea of my scale of thinking? But again like I said not all are major, there is one story I have come up with that I know would be a beautiful story, emotional and very true to life. Say a British American Beauty, that kind of effect.

If I carried on writing and churning out full scripts, teleplays etc, could I eventually just hire an agent and get him/her to bargain with hollywood studios to get them sold? Could this be done?

Any help you can offer, please let me know :)

[neilalford]

Originally posted by willowtree


I am currently fleshing out a fantasy quadrilogy. If they were movies, each of this 4-parter would popentially cost roughly $200 million each to make. Does that give you an idea of my scale of thinking?

:eek:

How much?!?

That means that each film would cost more to make than the entire LOTR trilogy, I'm not sure it's even possible to spend that much on a film (unless you're Kevin Costner).

Anyway I'd definitely start smaller to begin with, the BBC seem to have that search for new talent thing going on, might be a good place to start and get your foot in the door.

These days I don't think it really matters how good your ideas are, most places are generally looking for safe bets.

[mrwriter]

Originally posted by willowtree
I am still going to write it, even if it never gets made, becasue I can look back and say to myself 'I wrote that, I had an idea and commited it to paper'.

Not just for that reason - nothing you write is wasted (unless it's crap ;)) as you can use it as a writing sample when trying to nab yourself an agent for a more realistic project (sorry, but it's true - you have more chance of winning the lottery three weeks running than getting your Star Trek script made!)

The larger your body of quality work the more likely you are to get taken seriously. Get your feet on the ground, think smaller and don't lose heart when people look for reasons not to take you seriously at first.

Oh, and don't ever pay an agent unless you want to get ripped off.

[DVDWotcha]

What about having a look at something like this :

http://www.ideasfactory.com/

I reckon maybe you need to team up with a like minded chap with a video camera and do some short films. Doesn't have to be high budget... if the story is good you'll be on a winner. Go on from there.

http://www.bifa.org.uk/news_story.php?news=4

[The Beyond]

Originally posted by willowtree


I know how to write scripts, I have Movie Magic Screenwriter



Not quite the same thing is it? It is like saying that I know how to drive because I've just bought myself a car.
You are right to get the mechanics of writing correct, as you would be surprised at how many people submit scripts that are not properly formatted (i.e. they write in long hand on both sides of the paper and expect people to be actually read through it all but writing a script isn't just about the mechanics.



I am also working on a 100 page Harry Potter novel

Frankly I wouldn't waste my time. A big part of the creative process is inventing your own characters with their own motivations and desires. What is the point of playing with somebody elses toys when you can make your own that are even cooler?



Its always a nagging thought I have, comments like yours dont help but they are the truth.

I'm not trying to discourage you - exactly the opposite. But you must be realistic or you are in for a huge disappointment. Try finishing off a few of your ideas as short stories and go to your local library (or bookshop) and look at the writer's and artist's year book for a list of publishing companies or magazines that you might be able to sell to.
You will get a bigger buzz out of seeing your first piece of work published (even if it is only in a small print run magazine) than you would have thought, and it should give you the incentive to continue.

I am currently fleshing out a fantasy quadrilogy. If they were movies, each of this 4-parter would popentially cost roughly $200 million each to make. Does that give you an idea of my scale of thinking?

As an experiment why not try writing something where you restrict yourself to just 2 or 3 characters or two changes of scenery? It will force you to focus on the motivations and conflicts of the characters and is a useful exercise when trying to hone your writing skills. It takes less imagination to conjure up hoardes of characters sweeping across endless plains in exotic locations, for instance, than it does to hold a reader's attention with a more focused personal drama between 2 people.

As a great example, some of the best TV writing was a result of budget cutting exercises forcing the writers to use sets that already existed and characters that were already available. Look at the classic BBC comedy episode of Steptoe and Son called "The Desperate Hours" The whole thing just had the 2 regulars, plus 2 guest actors using the one set. It is one of the funniest and most poignant pieces of television produced.

Also make sure that you don't restrict your reading material to the type of stuff that you want to write. You can pick up inspiration from an inumerable amount of diverse sources.
who knows - diving into Dicken's A Tale of Two Cities might give you an idea for a character trait that you can use in your latest space opera or gothic horror.

I hope I don't sound negative - that really isn't my intention. Don't give up, but be realistic. Read lots and (importantly) carry some of your ideas through to the end. There is no use in having reams of good ideas if none of them ever get to see the light of day.

Good luck matey. :thumbs:

[Byron]

Originally posted by willowtree
I know how to write scripts, I have Movie Magic Screenwriter (the software people like Francis Ford Coppola uses) and have experience of writing stories. But all the same, i'd appreicate some recommendations.

I am currently fleshing out a fantasy quadrilogy. If they were movies, each of this 4-parter would popentially cost roughly $200 million each to make. Does that give you an idea of my scale of thinking?
Your second name wouldn't happen to be Moltisanti, would it?

;)

[willowtree]

Originally posted by The Beyond
Not quite the same thing is it? It is like saying that I know how to drive because I've just bought myself a car.
You are right to get the mechanics of writing correct, as you would be surprised at how many people submit scripts that are not properly formatted (i.e. they write in long hand on both sides of the paper and expect people to be actually read through it all but writing a script isn't just about the mechanics.





Frankly I wouldn't waste my time. A big part of the creative process is inventing your own characters with their own motivations and desires. What is the point of playing with somebody elses toys when you can make your own that are even cooler?





I'm not trying to discourage you - exactly the opposite. But you must be realistic or you are in for a huge disappointment. Try finishing off a few of your ideas as short stories and go to your local library (or bookshop) and look at the writer's and artist's year book for a list of publishing companies or magazines that you might be able to sell to.
You will get a bigger buzz out of seeing your first piece of work published (even if it is only in a small print run magazine) than you would have thought, and it should give you the incentive to continue.



As an experiment why not try writing something where you restrict yourself to just 2 or 3 characters or two changes of scenery? It will force you to focus on the motivations and conflicts of the characters and is a useful exercise when trying to hone your writing skills. It takes less imagination to conjure up hoardes of characters sweeping across endless plains in exotic locations, for instance, than it does to hold a reader's attention with a more focused personal drama between 2 people.

As a great example, some of the best TV writing was a result of budget cutting exercises forcing the writers to use sets that already existed and characters that were already available. Look at the classic BBC comedy episode of Steptoe and Son called "The Desperate Hours" The whole thing just had the 2 regulars, plus 2 guest actors using the one set. It is one of the funniest and most poignant pieces of television produced.

Also make sure that you don't restrict your reading material to the type of stuff that you want to write. You can pick up inspiration from an inumerable amount of diverse sources.
who knows - diving into Dicken's A Tale of Two Cities might give you an idea for a character trait that you can use in your latest space opera or gothic horror.

I hope I don't sound negative - that really isn't my intention. Don't give up, but be realistic. Read lots and (importantly) carry some of your ideas through to the end. There is no use in having reams of good ideas if none of them ever get to see the light of day.

Good luck matey. :thumbs:

Thank you for all your insight, I really appreciate it. I hold writing very close to my heart, like I would my family and friends and religion, so thank you for helping. When I said that I have moviemagic screenwriter I didnt mean it as if to say, oh I have the car but cannot drive. I can write screenplays and novels, let me assure you I have spent along time sifting though movie script etc to gain some experiece, then putting it to the test.

PS: Can you recommend some books for me to read relating to the subject? I am confident I can just dive into it, but I would like to read some books (like the one you recommened). I bought that by the way. I want it to cover everything from characters, locaitons, layout, context, everything basically. I dont mind if I have to buy 3 or 4 of them. I dont want to be 'told' things, like you must to this, you must do that. I want to be educated more, but done so via natural teaching. I have searched through amazon and these 7 stand out:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1852868821/qid=1070852634/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_19_2/026-0869100-0022861

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0767900715/qid=1070852302/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_3_1/026-0869100-0022861

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1580650155/qid=1070852302/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_3_2/026-0869100-0022861

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805011714/qid=1070852302/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_3_4/026-0869100-0022861

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1580650031/qid=1070852327/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_2_1/026-0869100-0022861

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1582970629/qid=1070852351/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_3_1/026-0869100-0022861

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312010443/qid=1070855161/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_3_2/026-0869100-0022861

I was thinking about buying 'all' of the above. I have ordered the top one on your recommendation however. I would very much appreicate your insight on this matter. I think i'll be all set then. I can write tele/screenplays, and novels, but with more background knowledge that I am hoping the above will introduce, I should then be set after that.

I have a story, you may say that it could wind up being sent to FilmFour, but you are right in what you said. I do need to establish myself first. I have dreams of hollywood, but I have all the time in the world I guess. What are the chances of me writing a british movie, low budget, sending it to filmfour and then actually directing it myself? Of course i'd need experience behind the camera, but directing burns in my passion gland just as much as writing does. I love images, and I love the thought of me directing my own scripts. Would filmfour need more than just a few short movies from me to actually let me helm my own sript on a budget of say £500,000 or so? I think I am thinking too far ahead again :blah: :dork:

EDIT
I guess what I am trying to say is right here right now, lets say in a few weeks I begin to write a serious 2 hour screenplay. Lets say (being the perfectionist I am) that it (touch wood) turns out to be a good story, well told, good characters and professionally composed. Then where do I go from here or should I say from there? Do I contact an agent, do I contact filmfour and submit it there to be made? What are my chances of it being made, you know, if it actually is a pretty good movie script. Would I have a chance or is it a case of so-so-itus? I have just editied this paragraph in becasue I really needed to get this off my chest once and for all. (fingers crossed) you will say, yes there is a chance (fingers crossed). :dork:

[Grandmaster]

A friend of mine moved to Los Angeles, got himself an agent and pitched scripts to Berman. It was a dead loss (although the Darmok script and Series 5 writers' bible are quite nice curios to keep - I had those off him in a second! :lol: ).

I can't help but think that you are instantly going for the top rather than building up a sound base of writing experience elsewhere first. Your $800m fantasy quadrilogy is not worth pursuing at this time - in any kind of entertainment, what you write isn't half as important as who you are. And to be honest, at the moment you are a nobody, with no track record whatsoever.

Perhaps if you had contacts in Hollywood, you could get your work seen. But you don't. You *do* need an agent, but if you can find a Hollywood agent who will take on an unknown who lives in Britain, I would be immensely impressed.

As I said, you need to start at the bottom, prove yourself with a worthy body of work and move slowly upwards. My recommendation would be to write drama/plays for radio to begin with. You'll find that this is where pretty much all the decent talent starts. Additionally, it is invaluable experience in building up your skills, as radio work really does put you through the principles of writing a screenplay (for obvious reasons). Radio producers will also look at unsolicited scripts, which barely any one else will.

Once you've had stuff produced, then move onwards. I think the word "experience" is key here because your posts are, to be honest, exceptionally naive. A parallel to what you're suggesting would be something like, "I've done some track days and I really think I can drive well - who has Ron Dennis's contact details so I can drive in Formula One for McLaren?"

You need to stop thinking pie in the sky and start being realistic.

[hokers99]

They're right I'm afraid.

But the thing you do have in your favour (clearly) is drive, enthusiasm. Work on improving your writing, do short stories, that sort of thing and try to get as much feedback as you can. Send manuscripts to UK publishing houses. A published UK writer with an agent sounds a lot more credible than an unsolicited script.

I can see why you think you could do better than some of the Enterprise scriptwriters though, the script quality has been terribly variable recently.

Good luck.

[Grandmaster]

I really can't stress enough that you have to work your way up. There are no quick fixes. You will also need a lot of luck.

Just to illustrate, William Shakespeare is without a doubt the greatest dramatist in the history of English Literature, and all the evidence points to him starting out as the Elizabethan equivalent of a cloakroom attendant.

Just because he had a fantastic talent, it didn't stop him having to do it the hard way to make it big.

[jerryg]

If you want to direct as well, why not do a Movie course?

Alternatively there are script writting courses in London. These are not free. But they are meant to be very good - if only for contacts.

Someone I used to know sent scripts to the guy who directed Cracker (can't remember his name). He liked them and got him a job as a script writter for a soap, he then went on to do one of the course I mentioned above. I think he now writes freelance and has an agent, I'm fairly sure he's done a few plays for Channel Four.

Didn't the guy who wrote 51st State send his script over to (can't remember his name either) that english actor who's in the start of Pulp Fiction? He liked it and passed it on to other people and loand behold one day he got a call saying they were going to make it. I think though that he was very lucky.

But I have to agree with the comments above. The way in, is through hard graft. Lots of Luck. Oh, and talent.

[bollecks]

Willowtree, my first kids novel is being published by Hodder next year (and you can all check out the website at www.cherubcampus.com then follow the link thru to Amazon and pre order a copy for an extremely reasonable £4.79…) so hopefully I'm at least reasonably knowledgeable on the writing trade.

(1) An American TV studio will never open a script and will generally put up a firewall between writers and people who deal with this stuff. Otherwise they get sued by some guy who sent a script in that matches something that happened in a real episode.

You start off as an unpaid intern when you leave college, maybe get a job as a script supervisor, suck up to the producer and get a junior job on the writing team. If you're lucky you'll be getting episode credits within five years. By then you'll have an agent and a reputation, know some faces and have a shot at pitching for other series or even an idea for your own series.

(2) The fantasy idea is a good one because the genre is very hot post Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings. etc. If you're a talented writer with a good idea, you have a chance of being published in book form. You have no realistic chance if you go straight for a movie/TV script unless you know people in the movie industry.

You'll have to write the first book and detailed pitches for the second and third. I'd recommend a trilogy, better still a single story with a window for sequels. Committing to a quadrilogy with an unknown writer will scare publishers like mad.

(3) When you've written your novel, (or script if you’re really up for defying the odds) show it to everyone you know, beg them to be horrible about it and then make changes based on what they say. You might get very upset when people slag it off, but people being nice about what you write is no use at all.

(4) You don't hire an agent. Getting an agent is the most difficult thing a writer will ever have to do. I'll give you some idea of the numbers game you’ll be playing:

My agent receives roughly 50 submissions from wannabe novelists and scriptwriters every day. That’s over 15,000 a year. She represents 12 writers only one of whom (me) she’s taken on in the last 3 years. I like to think I’m talented, but lets face it, at odds of 45,000/1 there was a beefy chunk of luck involved.

The good news is, once you have an agent (at 10 or 15% of your income, 20% for overseas and scripts +VAT) your chances of getting a book published rise to over 80%.

(5) Most writers also have a day job. Paperback royalties are 7.5-10% of cover price, a UK 50000 copy bestseller will earn you c. £16,000. If your movie script is taken on, expect 7-10,000 dollars and a royalty on net profits of the movie (Accountants make sure that a movie never makes net profit, yes even Titanic).

(6) So if you write a great book and get an agent, and get publishes, and it’s a success, and someone then buys the movie rights, and the movie is a success. You can make serious money. But the odds against all this happening are hundreds of thousands to one. It’s harsh, but the world is full of people who want to be writers.

(7) I’m about to be published by Hodder in the UK and Bertelsmann in Germany, other rights for my CHERUB books are up for grabs and there’s a chance I’ll be able to make a reasonable living from writing. But, despite a guaranteed, modest, income from writing over at least the next couple of years, I’m still keeping my feet on the ground, carrying on with my day job and writing as a hobby. If my literary career takes off, that’s great. If it doesn’t I’ll carry on writing for my own enjoyment, as I did for 16 years until I finally decided that I was going to make a serious attempt at getting published.

Be realistic, keep trying and above all else, seek and accept the criticism of other writers so that you become a better writer.

Books:

Buy an annual Writers and Artists handbook when you’re ready to submit to agents. It gives all their addresses and specialties.

From Pitch To Publication – Carole Blake (A real agent, and the only book on getting published worth buying)

William Goldman – 2 biographies on his life as a screenwriter. Infinitely more useful than any of the how to write a screenplay type books.


Hope all this helps & Good luck. Who knows, maybe we’ll both be millionaire writers some day…

[bollecks]

Of your book list:

How to write a damn good novel by James N Frey is pretty good stuff. As is the sequel How To Write Damn Good Fiction.

[TheoGB]

Originally posted by willowtree
So would there be any logical realistic way to do this? To get this damn script to them, to read and hopefully if they like it, to produce?

Sorry, I don't have time to read this thread thoroughly.

I think I read this either in reference to Buffy or to Babylon 5: They will take unsolicited scripts for TV shows, but they want a script for a different TV show.

Hence, if you wanted to write scripts for Buffy, you would send in a script you wrote for ER. This is (I guess) to check your style, but at the same time, not leave them open to the sort of legal problems that held up a Babylon 5 script for about a year.

[TheoGB]

Oh and I'd recommend reading Stephen King's book 'On Writing', as I found it intensely interesting to see how he became a published author, and to read his points about it. :)

[willowtree]

Originally posted by bollecks
Willowtree, my first kids novel is being published by Hodder next year (and you can all check out the website at www.cherubcampus.com then follow the link thru to Amazon and pre order a copy for an extremely reasonable £4.79…) so hopefully I'm at least reasonably knowledgeable on the writing trade.

(1) An American TV studio will never open a script and will generally put up a firewall between writers and people who deal with this stuff. Otherwise they get sued by some guy who sent a script in that matches something that happened in a real episode.

You start off as an unpaid intern when you leave college, maybe get a job as a script supervisor, suck up to the producer and get a junior job on the writing team. If you're lucky you'll be getting episode credits within five years. By then you'll have an agent and a reputation, know some faces and have a shot at pitching for other series or even an idea for your own series.

(2) The fantasy idea is a good one because the genre is very hot post Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings. etc. If you're a talented writer with a good idea, you have a chance of being published in book form. You have no realistic chance if you go straight for a movie/TV script unless you know people in the movie industry.

You'll have to write the first book and detailed pitches for the second and third. I'd recommend a trilogy, better still a single story with a window for sequels. Committing to a quadrilogy with an unknown writer will scare publishers like mad.

(3) When you've written your novel, (or script if you’re really up for defying the odds) show it to everyone you know, beg them to be horrible about it and then make changes based on what they say. You might get very upset when people slag it off, but people being nice about what you write is no use at all.

(4) You don't hire an agent. Getting an agent is the most difficult thing a writer will ever have to do. I'll give you some idea of the numbers game you’ll be playing:

My agent receives roughly 50 submissions from wannabe novelists and scriptwriters every day. That’s over 15,000 a year. She represents 12 writers only one of whom (me) she’s taken on in the last 3 years. I like to think I’m talented, but lets face it, at odds of 45,000/1 there was a beefy chunk of luck involved.

The good news is, once you have an agent (at 10 or 15% of your income, 20% for overseas and scripts +VAT) your chances of getting a book published rise to over 80%.

(5) Most writers also have a day job. Paperback royalties are 7.5-10% of cover price, a UK 50000 copy bestseller will earn you c. £16,000. If your movie script is taken on, expect 7-10,000 dollars and a royalty on net profits of the movie (Accountants make sure that a movie never makes net profit, yes even Titanic).

(6) So if you write a great book and get an agent, and get publishes, and it’s a success, and someone then buys the movie rights, and the movie is a success. You can make serious money. But the odds against all this happening are hundreds of thousands to one. It’s harsh, but the world is full of people who want to be writers.

(7) I’m about to be published by Hodder in the UK and Bertelsmann in Germany, other rights for my CHERUB books are up for grabs and there’s a chance I’ll be able to make a reasonable living from writing. But, despite a guaranteed, modest, income from writing over at least the next couple of years, I’m still keeping my feet on the ground, carrying on with my day job and writing as a hobby. If my literary career takes off, that’s great. If it doesn’t I’ll carry on writing for my own enjoyment, as I did for 16 years until I finally decided that I was going to make a serious attempt at getting published.

Be realistic, keep trying and above all else, seek and accept the criticism of other writers so that you become a better writer.

Books:

Buy an annual Writers and Artists handbook when you’re ready to submit to agents. It gives all their addresses and specialties.

From Pitch To Publication – Carole Blake (A real agent, and the only book on getting published worth buying)

William Goldman – 2 biographies on his life as a screenwriter. Infinitely more useful than any of the how to write a screenplay type books.


Hope all this helps & Good luck. Who knows, maybe we’ll both be millionaire writers some day…

Thank you for your feedback, its most kind of you to spare the time. I don’t deny that your comments had a negative 'depressing' truth to them when I read them first. To be honest I wasn’t in it for the money, rather, to have a fan base that follows your work, and to please the fans in turn by writing for them. I like that concept. But I am quite shocked that the money is so...smallish. That new author GP Taylor I think he is called, produced Shadowmancer, he has come from nowhere in the world of publishing, but he wrote that book and submitted it. I think he was paid thousands over here, but in the US they gave him an advance of $500,000 (I think), with royalties to come on publication.

What do you think about my script for a FilmFour submission though? Bearing in mind they are there to help talent into the industry? I really want to write this script (with the knowledge that it will be at least read), I think it would be a good, well told tale of urban reality. And low-budget to boot. Would FilmFour read it and, if it strikes a cord with someone there, are there movie possibilities?

[camaj]

Do you think you could write comedy? Take a look at "Shoot the writers" 00:20 ITV (in London at least)

[bollecks]

US rights are a big deal. Typical US book advance is 3x bigger than UK rights (Actually called commonwealth because it includes Aus Nz & Canada) because market there is bigger. Any small or medium scale writer will be depending on foreign rights sales to keep their head above water

$500,000 sounds great. but these figures are very rare and they're puffed up. It's probably a multi book deal and might include hefty perfomrance related bonuses that never get paid. The headline figure attracts good publicity though!

All the big money does seem to be in fantasy books just now (cant stand them myself). There have been big advances for the Lion boy trilogy and Illmoor Chronicles and lots of long standing fantasy bods have got the biggest contracts of thier careers.

If you feel you have what it takes and can get an outstnading fantasy book together within 6 months or so (thats only about 2 chapters a week) you're in with a chance. Be careful though, if a couple of these big money books go belly up, fantasy will
suddenly become the hardest genre to get published in, so don't hang about!

EDIT: Script idea, give it a try if you're keen. It's good practice, you might win but there will be thousands of entries. One thing I'd definately suggest is that you decide what you want to write and focus on it. An agent will be looking for someone who can consistently produce good work in one field.

[willowtree]

Originally posted by camaj
Do you think you could write comedy? Take a look at "Shoot the writers" 00:20 ITV (in London at least)

I can do exagerated comedy

[willowtree]

Originally posted by bollecks
US rights are a big deal. Typical US book advance is 3x bigger than UK rights (Actually called commonwealth because it includes Aus Nz & Canada) because market there is bigger. Any small or medium scale writer will be depending on foreign rights sales to keep their head above water

$500,000 sounds great. but these figures are very rare and they're puffed up. It's probably a multi book deal and might include hefty perfomrance related bonuses that never get paid. The headline figure attracts good publicity though!

All the big money does seem to be in fantasy books just now (cant stand them myself). There have been big advances for the Lion boy trilogy and Illmoor Chronicles and lots of long standing fantasy bods have got the biggest contracts of thier careers.

If you feel you have what it takes and can get an outstnading fantasy book together within 6 months or so (thats only about 2 chapters a week) you're in with a chance. Be careful though, if a couple of these big money books go belly up, fantasy will
suddenly become the hardest genre to get published in, so don't hang about!

EDIT: Script idea, give it a try if you're keen. It's good practice, you might win but there will be thousands of entries. One thing I'd definately suggest is that you decide what you want to write and focus on it. An agent will be looking for someone who can consistently produce good work in one field.

There is NOWAY on heaven or earth that I could write my fantasy in just a few months. It’s the kind of thing that takes years, maybe even a decade to join up all the dots. I could not write it over night, there is no way. Otherwise it would just be a huge world, rushed and thinned out. So hopefully (touch wood) over the years I will keep adding to it, then after about 5 years or so, when I have pages upon pages of ideas to inject into it, and effectively fuel it, I can then write it. It took Tolkien 10 years to write The Lord of the Rings, and I am not for one minute saying I could produce something as big or as good as that, there is no way I could, but I want to try and make my story as creative, and held in the highest quality as possible, which takes time. I don’t yet know what my talent will be, or even if I’ll make a good writer. I feel the passion within, and that's what makes me believe.

About writing in genre though, there is no single genre I would better in (that I know of at this point). I want to do fantasy, drama, sci-fi, adventure, mystery, romance, everything. At least, that’s how I feel now.

I have no qualifications, a bit of knowledge, but I know enough to know I want to write and I want to do my sincere best to please my readers, to write good stories, and that’s what I hold to, that’s what I cling on to every passing day.

[mrwriter]

I think bollecks is understating the financial rewards of script writing (but the rest of the post is spot on).

It's very different to writing novels where, even if you get published, the odds are very much stacked against you being a success as it's all too easy to get lost on the shelf as an unknown amongst the celebrity chefs/ghost written football autobiographies etc.

If you can get (for example) regular TV work - your own drama series or even writing for someone else's concept, even on an infrequent basis of just a handful of scripts a year - you will be giving up your day job in Greggs (or wherever ;))

And once you've got a single credit behind you you'll find doors open a whole world easier than they did before. Even if you're not actually any good! No one wants to be first to take a risk on a new writer, but once someone else has you're suddenly a much brighter proposition.

[bollecks]

Originally posted by willowtree


I have no qualifications, a bit of knowledge, but I know enough to know I want to write and I want to do my sincere best to please my readers, to write good stories, and that’s what I hold to, that’s what I cling on to every passing day.

That's great, keep writing. Keep reviewing what you write and start getting a feeling for what you really want to do.

When you are ready to start submitting material, commercial considerations will come into play. People assume that an agent or publisher likes a story and will immediatly decide to represent/publish it.

If you're lucky enough to pique someone's interest, you'll go through a process similar to a job interview with both agent and publisher. They'll want to know that you can produce books/screenplays regularly and to a high standard. They'll also more than likely suggest huge changes and rewrites and expect you to make them on a tight schedule. (They might not even want all of these changes, they'll just be sounding you out to see if you're going to be easy to work with). You'll have to treat these demands in exactly the same way as a junior employee on the first day of a new job and do what you're told.

If you're not willing to work within to the commercial demands of your marketplace, they'll just pick up another talented author from their slush pile who will. Writers don't live in ivory towers writing exactly what they please and picking up fat pay cheques. It's like any other competative media field. The Carole Blake book I reccomended will really help you get to grips with all of this stuff.

[willowtree]

Originally posted by bollecks
That's great, keep writing. Keep reviewing what you write and start getting a feeling for what you really want to do.

When you are ready to start submitting material, commercial considerations will come into play. People assume that an agent or publisher likes a story and will immediatly decide to represent/publish it.

If you're lucky enough to pique someone's interest, you'll go through a process similar to a job interview with both agent and publisher. They'll want to know that you can produce books/screenplays regularly and to a high standard. They'll also more than likely suggest huge changes and rewrites and expect you to make them on a tight schedule. (They might not even want all of these changes, they'll just be sounding you out to see if you're going to be easy to work with). You'll have to treat these demands in exactly the same way as a junior employee on the first day of a new job and do what you're told.

If you're not willing to work within to the commercial demands of your marketplace, they'll just pick up another talented author from their slush pile who will. Writers don't live in ivory towers writing exactly what they please and picking up fat pay cheques. It's like any other competative media field. The Carole Blake book I reccomended will really help you get to grips with all of this stuff.

Well I am flexible. I am not sure if I would waltz into writing on demand, that, I think, may reduce my work. If I know I have all the time in the world I think I am one of those who produces better things. Some work the opposite to that. They work better under pressure.

I am going to carry on with the Enterprise teleplay and Harry Potter book all the same, just proving to myself I can do it. After that, I think I am going to work on a screenplay, the one I mentioned above, which I want to submit to FilmFour. I want to write novels, but screenwriting blazes over me just as much. I guess I'll worry about the publishing/submitting after I have finished them. If I truly knew deep down there wasn’t a cat in hell's chance of them being made, I wouldn't inject as much love into the projects.

bollecks, you said in one of your posts that if I concentrated on screenwriting that I wouldn’t stand a chance of them being read. Were you referring to the Enterprise teleplay of screenwriting in general, i.e. movie scripts? Many of the books I am looking into buying boast the know-how of not just writing screenplays but also how to go about getting agents and eventually getting the scripts read by producers etc.

I would just like to wish everyone here who has helped, advised and spared me the time, a hearty thank you. It means so much to me. My dreams are vivid, but hopefully, true, one day, soon... :dork:

[Grandmaster]

I think the overriding aspect coming through all the posts is that there's a game to be played here in order to be successful, and you can't play it by your own rules until you're established.

Your response seems to be that you'll carry on doing what you love (which is good) and then hoping for success with the results (which is not so good). I can't help but feel that you're in for a disappointment when you say this, "If I truly knew deep down there wasn’t a cat in hell's chance of them being made, I wouldn't inject as much love into the projects."

It's extremely obvious that the Enterprise script won't make it anywhere near the producers unless you have an agent. You can only approach this as a sample - let's be honest. And your fantasy story will by your own admission takes years to complete, and again, with no profile and no agent it's unlikely to go anywhere.

You turn your nose up at "writing to order" but this is a monumental mistake. Even Shakespeare "wrote to order" at the height of his career - the man who redefined drama for every subsequent generation took on work like rewriting scripts and writing poems to order. It's what kept the bills paid. If you can't infuse your own talent into someone else's ideas, the chances are you do not have the flexibility to be a successful writer.

It's great to have dreams but you have to couch them in reality. You really should be more interested in building up a respectable body of work that will build up into bigger and grander projects once you have success under your belt. I can't help but think that writing a movie as your first project is aiming too high too quickly...


(oh and didn't Film Four go out of business any way? or has that been sorted?)

[bollecks]

Originally posted by willowtree


bollecks, you said in one of your posts that if I concentrated on screenwriting that I wouldn’t stand a chance of them being read. Were you referring to the Enterprise teleplay of screenwriting in general, i.e. movie scripts? Many of the books I am looking into buying boast the know-how of not just writing screenplays but also how to go about getting agents and eventually getting the scripts read by producers etc.



It does happen. People do break into screenwriting, but they normally have some other kind of writing or televisual industry experience.

As for the screenwriting books, they are published by the dozen and sold on a promise, a bit like diet books and 'How to Revolutionise Your Career In Three Hours' type books. Nobody is going to buy 'How to slog your guts out for six months writing a screenplay and then find out it gets stuck on a pile with 50,000 others and ignored.'

[Andrew70]

willowtree, you keep telling how good your writing ability is and how you have all these wonderful ideas and concepts just waiting to be committed to paper - but have you actually finished anything that can be read yet?
It's beginning to sound like hyperbole to me and I'm getting the impression that you don't produce anything other than synopsises of your ideas.

Here's a challenge for you; produce a short piece with a Christmas theme that you can present in this thread on Christmas Eve. (Something similar in size to 4 or 5 pages from a paperback book.)
Are you up for it?
A.

[willowtree]

Originally posted by Andrew70
willowtree, you keep telling how good your writing ability is and how you have all these wonderful ideas and concepts just waiting to be committed to paper - but have you actually finished anything that can be read yet?
It's beginning to sound like hyperbole to me and I'm getting the impression that you don't produce anything other than synopsises of your ideas.

Here's a challenge for you; produce a short piece with a Christmas theme that you can present in this thread on Christmas Eve. (Something similar in size to 4 or 5 pages from a paperback book.)
Are you up for it?
A.

That sounds like criticism to me. No offence. But yes most of my idea's are based on synopses. If I don’t keep a record of everything, write things down every time I get an idea, I'll forget everything. I cant write about 100 things at once, so yes I keep the idea's locked away in a file until I am ready to do them, some of them might not, some of them (most of them hopefully) will. I keep building on ideas, expanding them (almost) every day. About your Christmas idea, that sounds interesting, but it’s emphatic. I cannot write something I have no basis for, or something I haven’t planned out. It’s like at school when they ask you to do an English essay; you have to do it, but don’t really want to. I have at no point said how good my writing is, I have said many times its a sort of fear, how I worry, about how I may or may not be creative enough or intelligent enough to write. I worry about that every day. I will do so until I finish a full on story project. This also answers another of your questions.

My dream is to write, maybe as a pass-time first, but as I get older, I want to undertake it full-time. If I am graced with long life, then I have many years ahead of me yet. If I can finish a full on story, be it novel or script, and am happy with it at the end, only then will I launch into my synopses and turn them into what they were meant to be. Therein lies the reason I am writing this Harry Potter and Enterprise project. To test myself. I knew from the beginning that Harry Potter could never be published, I thought I may have a shot with the Enterprise script, but it doesn’t bother me as much now anyway. From what I hear it could be going off-air next year anyway (that killed me to say that), recent rumours flying around indicate this anyway.

A few things I don’t want to be about writing though, is big-headed or arrogant. No offence Andrew70, I didn’t mean to semi-attack you above, I respect your comments, but when you said; "you keep telling how good your writing ability is and how you have all these wonderful ideas and concepts", that is the attitude (in me) that I want to avoid. I hate the thought of being a know-it all, I am not, certainly not. Every day I worry if I am worthy, I have a gut feeling deep down that I will be a good writer, my heart tells me the same thing (sorry to get all mushy), but its a constant worry to me. Do I listen to my heart, or my feelings of doubt and fear? Yes, I do think I have some good ideas in my synopses, but to execute them is another matter. That's why I keep building on them every time I have a new idea, because some of them are so big now that they 'could' fill up a story. They start off as any other, a few lines, then eventually after a month or two, a few paragraphs, some have even gotten to the stage of being pages upon pages long.

Wow...look at the time...I only came on to check out any new Lord of the Rings gossip...better get to bed, its 5am :eek:

[willowtree]

Originally posted by Grandmaster
I think the overriding aspect coming through all the posts is that there's a game to be played here in order to be successful, and you can't play it by your own rules until you're established.

Your response seems to be that you'll carry on doing what you love (which is good) and then hoping for success with the results (which is not so good). I can't help but feel that you're in for a disappointment when you say this, "If I truly knew deep down there wasn’t a cat in hell's chance of them being made, I wouldn't inject as much love into the projects."

It's extremely obvious that the Enterprise script won't make it anywhere near the producers unless you have an agent. You can only approach this as a sample - let's be honest. And your fantasy story will by your own admission takes years to complete, and again, with no profile and no agent it's unlikely to go anywhere.

You turn your nose up at "writing to order" but this is a monumental mistake. Even Shakespeare "wrote to order" at the height of his career - the man who redefined drama for every subsequent generation took on work like rewriting scripts and writing poems to order. It's what kept the bills paid. If you can't infuse your own talent into someone else's ideas, the chances are you do not have the flexibility to be a successful writer.

It's great to have dreams but you have to couch them in reality. You really should be more interested in building up a respectable body of work that will build up into bigger and grander projects once you have success under your belt. I can't help but think that writing a movie as your first project is aiming too high too quickly...


(oh and didn't Film Four go out of business any way? or has that been sorted?)

True, the movie script may be aiming too high to fast, trying to run before I can walk right? I agree. But then once I have finished the script, it’s finished. It'll be my work, my story. It doesn’t have to be sent off straight away. Left maybe for a few months, while I do other stuff. The way I see it there are rules and regulations, terms and conditions for everything. But if we all follow order, we all get into line and do as we are told, then you soon have Hollywood. If you get what I mean in a twisted kind of way. Of course, some rules and conditions have to be followed and there is no way out of that, this I understand. If I have a passion for a movie script, and I can do it, then should I not do it? We have all established that I have no ID so to speak, I have a day-job which I love (which most of you will hate...TV Licensing :razz: ) and allot of time on my idle hands. Surely it cannot do any harm to jump into the water, all be it it'll be freezing. But my love for storytelling may warm that icy water up. Am I speaking in riddles? It is late I guess. :dork:

I didn’t turn my nose up at writing to order, if I were offered a job under a tight schedule, uuuuuum yes I guess I would. I think I was trying to say that I would prefer to write to my own liking, but of course, if a job came up (like it would ever), then I would accept it. It may take a bit of getting used to, but I would do it.

One thing I do understand, which I am not sure may have been a light underlining of you comment, is that, sometimes one had to be under pressure to better themselves, instead of being locked away in box all of your life, never having room to breath and look up once in a while. I understand this, and would hold to it. But then again, everyone is different.

When you said this "You really should be more interested in building up a respectable body of work that will build up into bigger and grander projects", what kind of project do you mean? Like say, short stories I can maybe go out and film with some friends? I have been thinking about this for a while actually. Might be some good fun too.

Thanks for the advice buddy :thumbs:

[bollecks]

Originally posted by willowtree
True, the movie script may be aiming too high to fast, trying to run before I can walk right?

You'll never get published if you use two cliches in one sentence!

If you're determined to do screenwriting, did you have any plans to read the William Goldman books I mentioned?

They're called Adventures in the Screen Trade and Which Lie Did I Tell. Although they're not how to books per-se you'll learn a lot about how the screenwriting trade works.

Unlike all the writers of how to books I can think of, Goldman has written great scripts like Butch Casidy & The Sundance Kid (won oscar) as well as working as a hack on stuff like Maverick and bailing out many a troubled script.

And just to put it all in perspective, not long after picking up his Butch & Sundance oscar and making a couple of other very successful films, Goldman couldn't get another script off the ground for more than seven years. That, perhaps, is the most telling lesson of all about how hard it is to work as a screenwriter.