View Full Version : Why is Alien Resurrection so bad?
After getting two Alien Legacy sets (my bad - ordered R4 then my local woolies got in the R2 £29.99), I watched Alien Resurrection last night.
I didn't think the detractors of this film were being fair. I mean, it's got Aliens in it... and Winona Ryder... and then I actually watched it.
And it is the worst film I've ever ever ever seen. It is really awful. It was more predictable than an episode of Brookside. It looked like a bad episode of Red Dwarf (I quite like Red Dwarf BTW). The potential of the Ripley character was vastly underused. Winona sounded like she was still Veronica from Heathers.
And the DVD! Includes such bonus features as Interactive Menus, and a Featurette. Which is 3 minutes long.
What happened? And is there another DVD planned with anything more than a 3 minute featurette?
John Hodson
13-10-2001, 11:30
Originally posted by Andy_C
And the DVD! Includes such bonus features as Interactive Menus, and a Featurette. Which is 3 minutes long.
What happened? And is there another DVD planned with anything more than a 3 minute featurette?
Inevitable; apparently Ridley Scott and Sigourney Weaver are in talks over a proposed Alien 5 ; this is a franchise remember, and every last dollar will be squeezed out of punters. So be prepared for DVD re-releases, and another box set. I agree with you BTW, but while I think the original film is a tremendous piece of work, I hate all the sequels, though I can just about tolerate Aliens (just about).
---
In Woolworths, no one can hear you scream...
It wasn't THAT bad a film. I agree with most of the points you made. But you get the feeling that the movie could have been so much more, they had the cool sets, the acting wasn't that bad, SFX were pritty good. So all the elements where there for a very good film but the writers once again failed. (Although not as badly as in the terrible Alien3). The Film could have had a big story in the Aliens vain, but didn't. But actually i was enjoying it for the most part, then came the last 20min, WTF!?!?!! The guy who designed the alien and the guy who approved it should have been dragged out on to the street and shot! Why didn't the studio exec's say anything?
Still, it's mostly enjoyable.
i enjoyed the movie though the story was a bit poor there are so many avenues to explore non of which are really dealt with satifactorily by this episode.
Maybe time for Hollywood to let the story die or get input from fans anyway good mindless fun.
Winona Ryder was bad in this and is becoming the Keanu reeves of actresses.....wooden.
I also noticed the screenplay was by Joss Whedon - I'm guessing this is same guy as the one who created Buffy...
And am I the only one who thought the underwater bit (complete with Jaws music) was cringe inducing?
Not really, actually for me it was one of the few highlights of the movie!!
Originally posted by Andy_C
It looked like a bad episode of Red Dwarf (I quite like Red Dwarf BTW).
I know what you mean - the lighting was all wrong in Resurrection....too harsh.
Lenny Nero
13-10-2001, 12:26
No no no NO! NO! ... NO! Don't say that, it hurts my ears/eyes whatever. I was so happy to see a 4th part, and then the trailer came to theaters, I was so hysterical I got nearly thrown out of the theater, and then it came out on my birthday, exactly on it and I went to see it and it was the happiest day of my life to that date.
I've been a Ripley fan since I can remember, back when I was little and my mother told me she saw this great horror film Alien and that there'll be a sequel on tommorow night, and let me watch it even though I was pretty young for that kind of movie and since then I was hooked. Aliens is considered to be the best by all, while Alien 3 the worst. For me personally Alien Resurrection comes pretty close to Cameron's Aliens, on the excitement level.
Heh, I remember I would get everyone on our block, we would all buy some toy weapons, and go play "aliens" in one of the 3 story houses or malls being built around at that time on the construction sites. I'm not gay or anything but when I was little I so wanted to be Ripley :o
The characters were all fun and I absolutely loved the mother computer and her funny lines.
One of the best sci-fi movies to come out the past 5 years, including Strange Days, Fifth Element and Supernova (Check out the REAL ending on the DVD and other great chopped out scenes that complete it)
robbiejm
13-10-2001, 12:36
Originally posted by Lenny Nero
Aliens is considered to be the best by all, while Alien 3 the worst. For me personally Alien Resurrection comes pretty close to Cameron's Aliens, on the excitement level.
I'd say Alien is considered the best 'by all' generally speaking, with Alien Ressurection without doubt the worst.
Just Call Me Wanda
13-10-2001, 12:39
Heh, I remember I would get everyone on our block, we would all buy some toy weapons, and go play "aliens" in one of the 3 story houses or malls being built around at that time on the construction sites. I'm not gay or anything but when I was little I so wanted to be Ripley
Yes I did this too - but weirdly I wanted to be Vasquez!??!
I made a gun and I thought it was really cool. I wasn't as elaborate as you (construction site) but I switched off all the lights in the house, told my mum to stay in the kitchen and me and a couple of friends would play - ALIENS.
ian_davies
13-10-2001, 12:42
Originally posted by Just Call Me Wanda
Heh, I remember I would get everyone on our block, we would all buy some toy weapons, and go play "aliens" in one of the 3 story houses or malls being built around at that time on the construction sites. I'm not gay or anything but when I was little I so wanted to be Ripley
Yes I did this two - but weirdly I wanted to be Vasquez!??!
I made a gun and I thought it was really cool. I wasn't as elaborate as you (construction site) but I switched off all the lights in the house, told my mum to stay in the kitchen and me and a couple of friends would play - ALIENS.
Same here! I even found a bandana and dressed up like Vasquez :) I'm not a cross-dresser or anything! My cousin who was a fanatic of the films made me a pulse rifle out of wood! Which was pretty cool, ahh such fun memories.
Just Call Me Wanda
13-10-2001, 12:43
For me,
ALIEN - is the best of them all but my favourite film of all time is:
ALIENS. I thought:
ALIEN 3 was very good, I liked the change in direction but found:
ALIEN: RESURRECTION is biggest pile of trud ever to grace the face of the earth. Joss Whedon - go do Buffy and Angel!
Lenny Nero
13-10-2001, 12:45
Originally posted by ian_davies
Same here! I even found a bandana and dressed up like Vasquez :) I'm not a cross-dresser or anything! My cousin who was a fanatic of the films made me a pulse rifle out of wood! Which was pretty cool, ahh such fun memories.
Out of wood?
I had this "elaborate" black all parts movable 3 action rifle, which had around a dozen sound effects, shot water, sticks, and plastic balls from a pump action shotgun feature.
It was HUGE, or I was little then, but still I was the bad ass killing machine with that thing hehe :D
Just Call Me Wanda
13-10-2001, 12:48
Originally posted by ian_davies
Same here! I even found a bandana and dressed up like Vasquez :) I'm not a cross-dresser or anything! My cousin who was a fanatic of the films made me a pulse rifle out of wood! Which was pretty cool, ahh such fun memories.
In one of the first issues of Total film they had exact replica's of Pulse Rifles for sale at, I think $299. I wanted one but of course I was too young to go and order it myself and my Mum didn't think a gun that looked so real (Cameron modelled the gun on a real one) could get past customs. I think she even thought it fired bullets!
Just last year I walked into a toy store - a small privately owned thing and saw a face hugger. The thing looked so damn real. There was no price but I thought, I've got to buy it. I asked, and when I found out it was £550 I walked straight out the door!
Just Call Me Wanda
13-10-2001, 12:56
Originally posted by Lenny Nero
Out of wood?
I had this "elaborate" black all parts movable 3 action rifle, which had around a dozen sound effects, shot water, sticks, and plastic balls from a pump action shotgun feature.
It was HUGE, or I was little then, but still I was the bad ass killing machine with that thing hehe :D
Mine fired '10 millimetre explosive tip caseless, standard light armour piercing rounds'.
I think that:
Alien was a pretty good and quite scary horror/sci-fi film.
Aliens was the best of the four. An excellent action film, also with sci-fi too.
Alien3 was OK. But the studios played around with the film and didn't let the director produce the film that would have been great.
Alien Resurrection - A plainly terrible film. Without doubt, the worst of the four.
I just know that an Alien 5 would be terrible. It was pretty obvious that Alien Resurrection was just being made to squeeze some cash out of the public.
Alien - Brilliant.
Aliens - Brilliant On par with Alien.
Aliens - Brilliant On par with Aliens.
Alien Resurrection - Awful On par with Godzilla/Batman and Robin*
*I think these two films are some of the worst EVER created.
While I think Alien Resurrection isn't all bad (there were some interesting set pieces for example) but I can't see why it should've been made at all - as Paul490 points out it was obviously for the money, not becuase the story needed a continuation after Alien3 (which I'm a big fan of, so I won't have anyone bad-mouthing it! :p).
There are many things wrong with Alien Resurrection, e.g. Winona Rider being cast as Call (she may be a good actress, but not very convincing as an Bishop-esque android, a crappy script; an even crappier ending; and worst of all, the "Newborn" thing - what the hell?? :confused:
Just Call Me Wanda
13-10-2001, 13:45
Yeah the problem is - it doesn't matter how bad Alien 5 is, I'll still go and see it. Franchise = $$$
Just Call Me Wanda
13-10-2001, 13:53
The 'new born thing' totally destroyed what H.R Giger created - the thing we came to love and be scared sh*tless of.
I agree, Alien 4 had some good set pieces, but so did Godzilla! The scene under water is terrific entertainment but it was lit so brightly it took all the tension away. Fincher, Cameron and Scott all took the decision to keep the scenes dark - what we don't see creates a sense of unease. Additionally, I couldn't care less if most of the characters got killed and I didn't feel Ripley was in danger at all!
It's all down to a terrible script.
In one of the first issues of Total film they had exact replica's of Pulse Rifles for sale at, I think $299. HEHE - you just know what I'm gonna say - I have one, in perfect condition... Only it cost a lot less and I could play with it as a kid:p . I always wanted to be Bishop (and it just so happens that Lance Henrikson is one of my favourite actors:D ) and I used to play Aliens at my cousins house (mansion sized) with all his friends... Ah, those were the days...
I agree, Alien 4 had some good set pieces, but so did Godzilla! I actually quite enjoyed Godzilla - mainly because of Jean Reno - and I like the fact it copies Aliens for the last half hour: although I didn't like it enough to buy a copy on DVD:) .
IMO the order of how good the films are is this:
Aliens - Wonderful film, very similar to Luc Besson's: Leon.
Alien 3 - Brilliantly crafted piece of imaginative and scary cinema, far more so than any other Alien film, ever.
Alien - Despite Ridley Scott being one of my favourite directors (second actually) I like the style of the other two more.
Alien Ressurection - Enjoyed it more than Godzilla & Anaconda, less than Armageddon or Pitch Black.
So there you go, just don't argue with me :mad: ...
Alien 3 sucked so bad it was unbelievable - you could hardly tell anyone apart which made you feel nothing for the characters. At least Alien Resurrection had a little bit of originality in it.
I just wish that Alien 5 leads to the Aliens winning and colonizing Earth - I just think it would be a superb story!
mysteriousjimmy
13-10-2001, 15:05
Originally posted by john316
I just wish that Alien 5 leads to the Aliens winning and colonizing Earth - I just think it would be a superb story!
the Aliens make it earth only to find out that Predators have taken over.... :)
Jimmyboy
13-10-2001, 16:45
The Aliens come to Earth and try to crack America like the great El Dani.:D
Hmm..... I though they were in production with an Aliens Vs Predator film ?
I love both Aliens and Predator so that would be great.
I liked Alien and Aliens, though Alien 3 sucked in a big way. Alien 4 is ok up till the newborn and then it turns into a ridiulous parody.
[spoiler]The damn thing dosn't even look scary and the whole half human thing is just taking the ****. I've seen scarier episodes of Playbus.
[spoiler]
Hope they get some talent in for the next one, and it dosn't include Weaver who really should step away from the whole thing now.
Just Call Me Wanda
13-10-2001, 17:13
Bring back:
Vasquez, Drake, Hudson, Hicks, Crowe, Frost, Weirzbowski, Apone, Ferro, Dietrich (actually, <b>EDITED</b> Dietrich, if it hadn't been for her, Frost, Weirzbowski and Crowe would still be alive), Spunkmeir, and Gorman (for his second active combat drop).
Somehow, bring them back to life, stick them in a REALLY big spaceship (<b>EDITED</b> the narrative and story so far, lets have some action), put a loud of aliens in there. Give them more ammunition than the whole U.S Army needs and let things just happen.
I mean, any alien fan would be happy to see Ripley live happily ever after on Earth while this (the best band of marines to ever grace celluloid - yes, even better that the band of marines in Navy Seals!) group just kicked ass.
Obviously only Hudson would survive and he sets the spaceship to self destruck while fleeing in the ships smaller 'ground to air' ship called the Mostromo.
Then there could be a sequel set 57 years later when Hudson drifts into a deep space mining vessels proximity and is sent to earth to learn what has happened.
Oh the joys this would bring. Better do this for legal reasons:
(c) Copyright 2001 Just Call Me Wanda
<b>EDIT:</b> Naughty language...
I think "Alien" is the best of the series. "Alien 3" is an excellent film, one of the few SF films I've seen to have the sort of ideas and intellectual excitement of good SF writing. "Alien Resurrection" is half good, half bad but agreeably twisted. I think "Aliens" is an appalling film; an hour too long, lacking in wit or originality, badly acted (except for Weaver) , poorly written and generally worthless.
Just Call Me Wanda
13-10-2001, 17:24
I think "Aliens" is an appalling film; an hour too long, lacking in wit or originality, badly acted (except for Weaver) , poorly written and generally worthless.
....but you like Titanic....don't you.... :rolleyes:
Panavision
13-10-2001, 17:27
Alien 4 featured cartoon f/x, the finale is horrendous.
If Alien 4 was done by a British f/x team then, visually the film would've been awesome.
Jimmyboy
13-10-2001, 17:37
Love Alien, Aliens is about as good as you can realisticly expect a sequel to be. Alien 3 is dire, & Alien 4 is average with some excellent set-pieces.
<b>....but you like Titanic....don't you.... </b>
Er, no - where on earth did you get that idea from ?? I have no interest in anything Cameron has done since "The Terminator".
Just Call Me Wanda
13-10-2001, 18:09
Originally posted by Mike
<b>....but you like Titanic....don't you.... </b>
Er, no - where on earth did you get that idea from ?? I have no interest in anything Cameron has done since "The Terminator".
I pretty much summised that from your earlier post. But on some level I agree with you - bar Aliens, I think 'The Terminator' is his best film.
Originally posted by cluderi
The damn thing dosn't even look scary and the whole half human thing is just taking the ****. I've seen scarier episodes of Playbus.
Cluderi: haven't quite got the hang of the spoiler tags?
I think the problem with this film is with the majority of the characters. Sigourney Weaver's and Winona Ryder's characters aside I didn't particulaly care or have any interest in the other characters resulting in little or no impact when they died.
I loved Alien (still do), HATED Aliens (they come mostly at night, mostly) and thought Alien 3 was OK. Have yet to see 4 but will indulge sunday night on chanel 4.
I am a BIG Joss whedon fan and in an online interview with him he talks about how he thought the film would turn out and had frustrating it was to work on. i'll try and find it to post it later.
here it is!
http://www.theonionavclub.com/avclub3731/avfeature_3731.html
and more specifically:
http://www.theonionavclub.com/avclub3731/avfeature_3731b.html
i personally like all the Alien films.
Alien and Aliens are both fantastic films and i couldn't pick one over the other - both classics.
Alien 3 whilst being flawed is still a good film with a fair bit of suspense. The first time i saw it i was greatly disappointed especially after the greatness of the first two films but after repeated viewings i enjoyed it more and more each time.
Alien 4 is my least favourite but i still like it simply because of Sigourney Weaver and Brad Dourif plus the films also got a few good set pieces in it.
These are 2 actors i could watch in anything :)
Also, there's an Alien documentary on tonight on channel 4 at 10.40pm called Alien Evolution presented by Mark Kermode.
Might be worth a watch me thinks!
Just Call Me Wanda
13-10-2001, 20:32
I am a BIG Joss whedon fan and in an online interview with him he talks about how he thought the film would turn out and had frustrating it was to work on. i'll try and find it to post it later.
well, with Alien 4 he wrote one of the worst scripts to be made into a film I've ever seen.
Originally posted by Mike
I think "Aliens" is an appalling film; an hour too long, lacking in wit or originality, badly acted (except for Weaver) , poorly written and generally worthless.
Jesus Christ, you must not like action movies to make a statement like that!!!!!!!
<b>Jesus Christ, you must not like action movies to make a statement like that!!!!!!!</b>
On the contrary, my favourite film of all time - "The Wild Bunch" - is an action movie. I like good action movies, but don't consider "Aliens" to be good. Just my opinion naturally.
Just Call Me Wanda
13-10-2001, 21:09
Originally posted by Nirvana
I hated Alien4 simply because the Alien became a comedy prop rather than a menacing inhuman threat. Joss Whedon turned one of the greatest movie baddies into slapstick morons.
:mad:
Fantastic summation - totally agree!
http://www.plauder-smilies.de/happy/xyxthumbs.gif
i have to say that Aliens did that for me, turned the animal itself into a joke. Cameron destroyed Scott's vision IMHO :D
mainly because i hate the queen, i hate the whole idea of it. it was so funny when ripley comes face to face with her and is using the flame thrower. cameron manages to destroy any sense of mystery around the creature. And the bit at the end if soooo STUPID.
Originally posted by Mike
I think "Alien" is the best of the series. "Alien 3" is an excellent film, one of the few SF films I've seen to have the sort of ideas and intellectual excitement of good SF writing. "Alien Resurrection" is half good, half bad but agreeably twisted. I think "Aliens" is an appalling film; an hour too long, lacking in wit or originality, badly acted (except for Weaver) , poorly written and generally worthless.
I have to agree with Mike on this one. I just can't see the appeal of this one - whilst the original was much more threatening and psychological this one seemslike a Schwarzenegger version of a film like Ring.
The extended/director's cut does make it even worse in my opinion (the exception that confirms the rule!).
As for Alien 4 I thought it was a fair bit better than either 2 or 3 - although the script was far too close in parts to the original Alien especially the bit where they think they've escaped but the Alien is on the ship and they have to kill it off.... The cast was interesting and quirky (unlike 2) - Pinon and Perlman are not sex symbols but they look amazing in films.
It is by far Jeunet's worst film but also AFAIK the first he did without Marc Caro on design - he would have worked on it if he was given full control - something the studio refused I think.
I also read that HR Giger was omitted from the credits on this one n- shows how much respect the studios have for the artists that make them mega-bucks!
Originally posted by perfecta
I also read that HR Giger was omitted from the credits on this one n- shows how much respect the studios have for the artists that make them mega-bucks!
If you mean Alien 4, I'm sure Giger is credited with "Original Alien Design" (or something along those lines); or at least he was on the DVD.
Have to disagree about 4 being better than 2 or 3 as well! :p
Just Call Me Wanda
13-10-2001, 22:27
Originally posted by mythuk
i have to say that Aliens did that for me, turned the animal itself into a joke. Cameron destroyed Scott's vision IMHO :D
mainly because i hate the queen, i hate the whole idea of it. it was so funny when ripley comes face to face with her and is using the flame thrower. cameron manages to destroy any sense of mystery around the creature. And the bit at the end if soooo STUPID.
Yes, but without the queen you'd have detractors complaining the film is too much like the original. Cameron had to make the sequel different and in my opinion he did this to great affect.
The bit with the queen - without spoiling it for people who ahven't seen the film - represents one action set-piece after the other. She thinks she's got away, but has she, no it's back, and she thinks she's got away again but no, it's back. What this is: simply - is great action and tension - what more do you want and don't say - coherent story, character development, likeable characters, decent direction.
Aliens isn't about seven people stuck in a spaceship that they cannot escape from. It's different - it's what it needed to be and for me, with Aliens you get what it says on the tin.
ok i agree that it should have been different and i'm no film maker but i'm sure there was a way to do it and not make it an 'all-american-lets-get-'em' type film.
The bit I REALLY hate the most at the end is when ripley drags herslef up the bay door in the ship as EVRYTHING else is being sucked the other way. I just gets to me when film makers just think '**** i have to end the film now, oh well this'll do' and it just makes it so ridiculous.
to me it's just mindless, and maybe that's cool for some films, but not as a sequal too Alien.
:D
Cap'n Al
13-10-2001, 23:21
The reaction of many of my friends when Alien 3 came out was 'it may not be as good as the other two, but it's still a good Alien film.' Fair enough, I thought at the time; these days, looking at Fincher's work since then, I judge the film more critically, and hope for a director's cut one day.
Alien Resurrection has some very nice action scenes- I'm thinking of the swimming Aliens and Ron Perlman on the ladder- but it also has a dire ending, an uneasy mix of violent horror and ironic comedy, and the overall feeling that Jeunet was simply the wrong director for the material. The casting of Winona Ryder was also a big mistake on Fox's part, as it adds precisely nothing to the film.
I thought Alien was scary and impressive with Ridley scott's classy direction, Aliens by far is the best thing since sliced bread, good action sequences, scary parts, a film that you would love to be in. Alien 3 is watchable but intill I got it on video 2 years after it's release, I didn't know Hicks had died and he was one of my favourites from Aliens. Who ever wrote this part (Hicks Dying) should be roated by the Boll*cks. Overall Alien 3 was poor and I thought Alien Ressurction was excellent, as someone else said, it had a constant flow with Aliens and Had good actions and SFX though out, I only said I hated the end when that offspring alien was born, PLEASE- that newborn killing a queen it would never happen.
The rumors about Alien 5 is that it will be called 'Alien Earth War', and if that's the indication lets hope Ridley Scott Directs with James Cameron's Screenplay.
:cool:
Just Call Me Wanda
14-10-2001, 00:06
Who ever wrote this part (Hicks Dying) should be roated by the Boll*cks.
James Cameron.
And I see what you mean, but it could have let Hudson live as well.
Just Call Me Wanda
14-10-2001, 00:07
Bring in John McTiernan to direct Alien 5!
jonathan.e
14-10-2001, 00:10
You’re all wrong - Alien 1, 2 & 4 rock while 3 is appalling.
Just Call Me Wanda
14-10-2001, 00:14
Does anyone know where you can find information about what Fox did to Alien 3??
the Aliens make it earth only to find out that Predators have taken over....
That would ROCK!!! http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/up.gif
There is one reason why Aliens is just so damn good:
HUDSON
He is just too good!
Just Call Me Wanda
14-10-2001, 00:39
All hail:
HUDSON
:p
i have to agree about hudson - he was the best bit of aliens (in a not edited for tv kind of way)
stantheman
14-10-2001, 01:04
I'd like to stick my oar in by saying that the only good feature of Alien 4 was the sub story of the "training of aliens" segment.
Which i believe has been taken from either an Aliens novel or comic book, and had great potential.
It's dead and buried as far as I'm concerned, unless someone will do the Alien v Predator v Marine huge budget hokum.
mysteriousjimmy
14-10-2001, 01:15
Originally posted by mysteriousjimmy
the Aliens make it earth only to find out that Predators have taken over....
Originally posted by Roberto
That would ROCK!!! http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/up.gif
then the Borg turn up to assimilate both into the collective :D
Originally posted by sampath
If you mean Alien 4, I'm sure Giger is credited with "Original Alien Design" (or something along those lines); or at least he was on the DVD
Maybe it was 3 then... read an article by Mark Kermode where he was saying something along those lines. Recycled the paper though so can't check it!
Have to disagree about 4 being better than 2 or 3 as well! :p
Well most do - fair enough... What really mesmerises me is the adulation heaped upon Aliens... It just seems like a bad bad B-series plot - or a really good Cameron film!:D
Lenny Nero
14-10-2001, 02:36
Originally posted by mythuk
I am a BIG Joss whedon fan
Have yet to see [ Alien ] 4 but will indulge sunday night on chanel 4.
If you were a "BIG" fan you would have seen Alien Resurrection already.
Originally posted by john316
There is one reason why Aliens is just so damn good:
HUDSON
He is just too good!
Yeah! Bill Paxton as the whining Hudson, realisticly observing a given situation and commenting on it was so fun!
Originally posted by 01keith
I thought Alien was scary and impressive with Ridley scott's classy direction, Aliens by far is the best thing since sliced bread, good action sequences, scary parts, a film that you would love to be in. Alien 3 is watchable but intill I got it on video 2 years after it's release, I didn't know Hicks had died and he was one of my favourites from Aliens. Who ever wrote this part (Hicks Dying) should be roated by the Boll*cks. Overall Alien 3 was poor and I thought Alien Ressurction was excellent, as someone else said, it had a constant flow with Aliens and Had good actions and SFX though out, I only said I hated the end when that offspring alien was born, PLEASE- that newborn killing a queen it would never happen.
The rumors about Alien 5 is that it will be called 'Alien Earth War', and if that's the indication lets hope Ridley Scott Directs with James Cameron's Screenplay.
:cool:
Yeah you're right, and all those NOT liking Aliens should go get their head examined or get off the "elitist" chair or go watch their 1960's westerns or something.
Alien 3 is actually a pretty good installment, it's just that many, including me, are not very happy with the script killing off... oh well, basically EVERYONE! Killed off Hicks and Newt, showed that all hacked up piece of junk Bishop, even Ripley, so it's all on a down note and many don't like that. Plus overly dark sets, characters and situations, all these rapists and killers in the prison you know, being actually better than some "company" people, that didn't sink well with many.
Resurrection was extremely fun, it took it yet into another direction when I thought everything was already done. People scream about Giger's vision being destroyed...how is that? And that they are not scary anymore, well they were scary the first time around, second it was just annihilation attempt, third showed how just one of them can whipe out all the weakly humans without proper ammunition and how smart they are too, and in the 4th, how long can we be scared of them, it's like a good horror movie that doesn't show you the killer or monster in full till closer to end, to keep it scary and mysterious as our own imagination makes us scared more of something than when we actually see it. And we've been seeing alien creatures for 3 movies, so in the 4th, they are the lab rats, they're being cloned for profit, it's a very very cool idea, and they kick the stupid scientists' asses. Nothing wrong with having some comedy elements in it too.
Yeah lets hope Alien 5 finally gets Ripley and aliens to Earth, preferable killing most of the population, if not everyone, off. Start with middle east and US, then europe and rest, and then the last would survive in Canada, wouldn't that be ironic.
just because you disagree with someone i don't think there's any reason to be rude. they're only films! :eek:
wong fei hong
14-10-2001, 09:13
Even though I feel that none of the Alien sequels match the original, as monster movies go they are still pretty great. Each is distinctive and different - rare in a franchise - and entertaining. I can understand the criticisms of Aliens (concept perverted into gung-ho war movie with cutesy kid), Alien3 (murky, miserablist, Charles Dance) and Resurrection (jokes, the Newborn), but I find it difficult to believe that any of them can be considered bad.
Resurrection is a big bunch of fun - the ladder scene in particular encapsulates everything great about action and monster movies. Love it.:D
AndyWilson
14-10-2001, 09:43
Alien was a great horror movie featuring a monster, Alien 3 was as, as it was described in last night's Kermode doc, Name of the Rose in space, while Alien 4 felt to me more like a road movie set in a space station - and like that other recent road movie Fear and Loathing... sometimes let style take over, but its healthy disregard for plot gave it an edge. The main failing was the admittedly awful Alien Hybrid thing...
As for Aliens - a fun shoot-em-up in the same genre as Rambo, where the enemy happen to be Insectoid monsters rather than Communists, and in the context of the mid-80s when it was released it seemed to be very much in that mindset. Remember this was the dying days of the Cold War, the Iron Curtain was still in place, the USSR were fighting in Afghanistan opposed by covert CIA support of the Taliban, Walensa's Solidarity had been crushed in Poland, Mandela was still in prison in South Africa, the IRA were still bombing London and the USA still felt safe from terrorism.
An "Americans against the World", or indeed "Americans against another World" shoot-em-up captured the spirit of the times, but ignored everything that made Alien such a good movie. Its biggest fault, through my eyes, was introducing the Alien Hordes and totally taking away the threat of an individual Alien that existed in the first movie - after all if you found one on your ship you could just shoot it now...
Pretty much the only thing that makes Alien 4 worthwhile is Weaver's acting- she is quite fantastic, and for a woman of middle years looks damn foxy in that tight fitting suit of hers. But there we go.
I just really wish they'd put some sort of completely new twist on the Alien theme. I don't know if any of you out there have read some of the old Alien comic books (Dark Horse), which show that there is an awful lot you can do with an Alien which doesn't involve Ripley!
At the end of the day, the Alien is and has always been the star, and to just have them trying to gnaw holes in one woman is really quite dull.
What about the derilect ship in the original? It'd be nice to have some more info on that perhaps...
Michael Brooke
14-10-2001, 11:13
Without being in any way blind to its numerous flaws, I enjoyed <I>Alien Resurrection</I> a lot - though approaching it as a Jean-Pierre Jeunet fan just as much as an Alien fan definitely helped (I actually much preferred it to <I>The City of Lost Children</I>, one of the biggest disappointments I've ever had in a cinema - staggering visuals, but weirdly alienating in quite the wrong way).
I think the Aliens should get to earth and land in Afgansistan and kill those ********** Taliban B**********. I would love to see the Alien Queen ripe Osama Bin Laden in half like she did to Bishop in Aliens.
Anyone else agree!
:cool:
Idle Child
14-10-2001, 13:03
i'd just like to add:
Josh Whedon is a tit.
thankyou.
oh, and Alien Res had nothing on the triliogy.... nothing.
The alien trilogy no longer excists, it became a legacy when the forth film came out. It's like Star Wars, it is no longer a trilogy and now a legacy.
Yoda-
"MMMM, right you are!"
;)
Idle Child
14-10-2001, 13:18
Originally posted by 01keith
The alien trilogy no longer excists, it became a legacy when the forth film came out.
yes, i know. What i meant was that it's a poor addition to the legacy or saga... the 4th film (and outsider) when compared to the initial trilogy just doesn't build on anything. It's a hollywood action flick, meant to make them cash, and it failed miserably - and rightly so.
Just Call Me Wanda
14-10-2001, 13:18
Originally posted by AndyWilson
Alien was a great horror movie featuring a monster, Alien 3 was as, as it was described in last night's Kermode doc, Name of the Rose in space, while Alien 4 felt to me more like a road movie set in a space station - and like that other recent road movie Fear and Loathing... sometimes let style take over, but its healthy disregard for plot gave it an edge. The main failing was the admittedly awful Alien Hybrid thing...
As for Aliens - a fun shoot-em-up in the same genre as Rambo, where the enemy happen to be Insectoid monsters rather than Communists, and in the context of the mid-80s when it was released it seemed to be very much in that mindset. Remember this was the dying days of the Cold War, the Iron Curtain was still in place, the USSR were fighting in Afghanistan opposed by covert CIA support of the Taliban, Walensa's Solidarity had been crushed in Poland, Mandela was still in prison in South Africa, the IRA were still bombing London and the USA still felt safe from terrorism.
An "Americans against the World", or indeed "Americans against another World" shoot-em-up captured the spirit of the times, but ignored everything that made Alien such a good movie. Its biggest fault, through my eyes, was introducing the Alien Hordes and totally taking away the threat of an individual Alien that existed in the first movie - after all if you found one on your ship you could just shoot it now...
Interesting point but to draw on your closing statement -
What if you took the weapons away?
I don't own a gun, so how would I kill and alien?
Alien and Alien 3 - showed what a threat one alien was without such weapons. Aliens showed us what a threat 'aliens' were when you've got a whole arsenal of weapons - and who won, who won in the end? Most were dead, only one trained marine survived.
What is unknown/unseen creates suspense/unease = Alien/Alien3.
When you know you're surrounded by a virtually unstoppable force it creates costrophia/suspense = Aliens.
Cameron played on the relative fears of human beings much like Scott in the first. They were done in different ways and like many people say, 'Aliens' is a Vietnam war movie in space. High tech versus low tech.
OK. I'll start at the start.
I love Alien. The confined space, the solitary unknown alien killing the crew one by one.
I love Aliens. It acts as the perfect compliment to Alien. Confined space gives way to a massive space complex. A solitary Alien being 'hunted' gives way to thousands of Aliens hunting out the humans. This is a great great film. A bit overlong in the directors cut version, but a great film nonetheless.
Then there's Alien 3. I quite like this, it's well shot, dark; does something interesting with the story.
And there is the ******* child; Alien Resurrection. On it's own it's a pretty rubbish space flick (to me, on a par with Lost in Space; yes, that bad). As part of a series of great films, it is dire.
As mentioned above, the lighting is dire- ruining the atmosphere. I care nothing about the characters, they seem just to be picked out of thin air. The homages to other films are awful (Jaws, Empire Strikes Back...) and cringeworthy. Ripley being great at basketball; as if Alien blood suddenly makes her into a super US sports player. The ending is really bad (and the beginning and middle aren't that great either).
There is more, but I just can't bear to think about this film any more.
And after seeing last nights documentary on C4, I am shocked that the execs at Fox think 4 is better than 3. Fincher has shown he can direct - look at Seven, Fight Club and the Game. It's just a shame that corporate Hollywood can't take a chance on young directorial vision.
I'd like to see what they would do to the franchise if they pretended Alien 3 and 4 didn't exist.
Just Call Me Wanda
14-10-2001, 14:30
And there is the ******* child; - damn right it is!
Alien 4 also:
- destroys the compassion and emotional bond we have with OUR heroine. Now she just isn't the Ripley we know - the Ripley that lost a child while floating in space after Alien. The Ripley who lost a second chance at life with Newt after Aliens. The Ripley who defeated the aliens once and for all in Alien 3.
- destroys an exceptional trilogy by adding a vile fourth installment.
- created a 'stupid' hybrid beast which just isn't the alien we have come to 'love' and fear.
- brings back ANOTHER queen. Been there, done that, bought the tea shirt.
- creates the character of CALL. One question: WHY?
- is too brightly lit, again failing to stick to the tried and trusted method - darkly lit sets is something that has worked in the three previous alien films. This is a method that shouldn't have changed.
- had the wrong director. Nothing against Jean Pierre Jeanet but he wasn't right for the project. I think it is obvious that the producers wanted a new direction and style but they proved their inability to know what the Alien fans wanted when they butchered Alien 3.
- had the wrong writer. Joss Whedon proved he's too TV friendly to write a film and his black humour is only 'black' because it simply isn't funny.
- had strange and silly character development for Ripley - her characater was already destroyed but it got worse when she was cradled in the alien's arms and taken to the nest.
- had style over content but the style was all wrong anyway.
- had a story that resembled, as mentioned, a road movie and the characters seemed to be following a set out trail. It was just too un-real.
- had music that didn't really do anything for me. In Alien, the music is really creepy. It surprises me they didn't have American Rock anthems playing throughout the film - you know, so they could target that young team audience that was to blame for the butchered Alien 3.
Jimmyboy
14-10-2001, 22:18
After watching Alien Res for the 3rd time tonight there are still some questions which I cant find the answer too-
1. Why or how did Call end up on the pirate ship in the 1st place ?.
2. During the under water scene the only likable charactor (dreadlock dude with cool guns) gives his own life to save his friend suggesting that he's actually a nice guy. Why is it then, that within his 1st few scenes he smashes a woman in the face with a metal pole just for throwing a ball at his mate ******** ?.
3. Why did Ripley need to be cloned in the 1st place to get an Alien ?.
If they can clone Ripley, then surely they can clone a dead alien.
4. Why was Ripley kept alive after the Alien was removed ?.
5. Underwater scene again. When Call gets shot she falls into the water, but later appears behind the door of where they were originally trying to get too, how was this possible, and what was the point in going underwater if there was an another way round ?.
6. What the hell is going on with the ending ?.
Why did the Alien at the end of the film look nothing like an Alien from the original series, and how did it get to look that way ?.
No doubt there are countless more questions.
Lets go through them:
1. I know she found out about the plans for the Alien cloning through accessing some mainframe but why she was on the ship at that time, who know?
2. He knew the guy he helped for a long time - he only just met Ripley and couldn't give a rat's arse about her!
3. The Aliens were all apparently wiped out on LV 426 in Aliens with the one in Alien 3 and the one in Ripley's chest being the last survivors.
4. Because it was the first clone that had been produced correctly and they were going to analyze her growth.
5. I think I recall Call noticing another way out whilst in the water but it is not dwelled upon thus making here arrival behind the door look a little strange!
6. The Alien at the end was a human-alien hybrid which was a result of the Alien Queen and Ripley mating near the end.
Hope some of this helps!
I watched some of Alien Resurrection again tonight and thought it was really quite pathetic.
I think Alien³ should have not been messed with by the studios and I think the series should have ended then. The rest will simply be pointless, monkey-making product.
I didn't think Ripley was anything like what I knew from the three films before it. What rubbish Alien Resurrection is.
Kit_Taylor
15-10-2001, 00:41
In Mark Kermode's Alien saga documentary HR Giger said something like "they made my creations look like turds, literally." Watching Alien Resurrection last night he was right. No wonder the poor bugger's depressed.
Ripley was different in Alien Resurrection because it was not the same Ripley - it is Ripley cross-contaminated with Alien DNA. Don't you think that it would have been just plain stupid if the Ripley clone was exactly the same person as the Ripley charcter in the first 3 movies?
Idle Child
15-10-2001, 01:23
Just Call Me Wanda - i totally agree with your summation of why Alien Res is a bum wrap of a movie. When I compare A Res to the original Alien movie (which just oozes quality from every pore) i get extremely annoyed, angry and frustrated that the Alien saga should have been left to deteriorate in the way it has by the major studios who've butchered the original concept.
The Mark Kermode Doc. was good but there wasn't enough stuff that we didn't all ready know... If only Fox hadn't made such nonsense of the Alien 3 production - it could've been the best of the lot...:(
Watching the doc. made me relise that i have seen the 4th film on dvd and i def. do not want to watch again in any format ever.
And the same for Alien 3 - these films are truly dreadful and very unpleasent - esp resurrection.
Weaver is in it for the money only, she got paid more than the entire budget for Alien.
robbiejm
15-10-2001, 10:22
Hadn't seen it for ages till last night, I didn't think the Aliens were that bad, well, apart from that appalling creation at the end obviously, for the love of God what is it!. Some of the cgi sucks, but no more so than in the 3rd.
I'd forgotten just how poor the characters were though :rolleyes:, Ripley was fine, but the others were just awful. Winona Ryder, why why why :confused:. Did anyone actually want them to get off that ship and escape?, I didn't.
Oh and why is it that the Aliens take so long to get their act together. They nail some of the escaping military crew members in about 2 minutes, but somehow can't be bothered to go straight after the 'gang'.
Interesting thread, thought I'd add my comments.
Personally I thought Alien was good, Aliens was fantastic. Alien 3 sucked ass but was still good as it was part of the Alien Saga. I watched Alien 4 thinking it was going to be worse than the third.
I was wrong, it was miles better. But then...... What happened ?? What was that going on ??
The yellowy half alien - half human thing. What the hell was that. Up until that point I thought the film was fantastic. But when that second Alien came into the story, the film dived and sunk even lower when on the spaceship at the end.
Originally posted by Bolch
Interesting thread, thought I'd add my comments.
Personally I thought Alien was good, Aliens was fantastic. Alien 3 sucked ass but was still good as it was part of the Alien Saga. I watched Alien 4 thinking it was going to be worse than the third.
I was wrong, it was miles better. But then...... What happened ?? What was that going on ??
The yellowy half alien - half human thing. What the hell was that. Up until that point I thought the film was fantastic. But when that second Alien came into the story, the film dived and sunk even lower when on the spaceship at the end.
i'd have to agree with that.
Although i still enjoy the film very much i wish that whole thing had've been taken out of the film i just found it *in monty python voice* VERY VERY SILLY!
Originally posted by john316
Lets go through them:
6. The Alien at the end was a human-alien hybrid which was a result of the Alien Queen and Ripley mating near the end.
Hope some of this helps!
Hmm... not too sure about that one.
Now presumably the queen at the end wasn't the same one tha was taken out of Ripley, as that one reproduces by laying eggs. So Ripley is -in effect- the "grandmother" of the Queen at the end.
So I'd guess the queen at the end "grew" the womb-thing because she's an 'alien-human hybrid' of some sort. I have no idea what No 8 (she is not Ripley) and the Alien "did" in the end (looked pretty wierd :eek: ) but the queen couldn't have grown the "womb" as a result of that, as that'd mean she's able to grow it in a matter of minutes....
.... if you get my drift.
Or you could conclude that Alien 4 is a rather crappy film with no logic whatsoever....
PS: wonder what happens if Ripley No 8 reproduced? Maybe she'll grow an egg sac of some sort... :eek: :eek:
I think "Alien" is the best of the series. "Alien 3" is an excellent film, one of the few SF films I've seen to have the sort of ideas and intellectual excitement of good SF writing. "Alien Resurrection" is half good, half bad but agreeably twisted. I think "Aliens" is an appalling film; an hour too long, lacking in wit or originality, badly acted (except for Weaver) , poorly written and generally worthless.
I've come in late on this, so forgive me for using Mike's comments from page 1 as a springboard, but it gladdens my weary heart to see 'Aliens' held up for the atrocity it is. It sent me into torpor at the cinema, a recent viewing nearly sent me to sleep. Overlong by leagues, lacking in tension and way below possessing the kind of character depth that Mark Kermode's documentary on Saturday was suggesting.
The first is a gem (what an oustanding cast, BTW), 3 I've not seen (which I'm now tempted to correct) and Resurrection is fine by me, doing it's slam bang pure action thang with more gusto than most of this genre can muster. Aliens, though ? Jeez ... top-heavy twaddle and in no way deserving of its strong reputation.
You nearly fell asleep watching Aliens - dear god!!!!
Preacher
15-10-2001, 13:24
I though the Alien in Alien 3 looked a lot worse that the ones in Resurrection. It moved like something made by Ray Harryhausen!not to mention the fact that it changes size from shot to shot in the same scene. Appalling! The idea of using camp English thesps as the convicts/wardens was a bit of a joke as well.
Apart from the rather sad newborn idea I really enjoyed Alien Resurrection. :)
Anyone slagging off Aliens is a bit silly I think, why is it so fashionable to knock James Cameron? Not only does it provide lots of background story about the Alien, it contains many classic scenes from the whole legacy (the powerloader/queen fight, Ripley taking on the whole Alien army singlehandedly), several memorable characters and great action set pieces. Bad? I don't think so. Better then Alien? Probably not.
Mr Flibble
15-10-2001, 13:54
I don't think Alien3 is THAT bad - OK, the first is obviously the best - the second is an enjoyable movie.
Ressurection was slated so much that I wasn't expecting to enjoy it at all. When I did get round to watching it, it was OK, not brilliant. Have to agree about the ending though - just terrible :(
SqueakyG
15-10-2001, 15:48
People seem to be pretty confused about what was happening at the end of Alien Resurrection, and what the huma-alien hybrid creature was. This is understandable, because it is all pretty crap. But basically this is what it is about:
They wanted to clone Ripely specifically (rather than cloning the alien in Alien 3) because Ripley had a Queen inside of her, and the scientists wanted a Queen alien for their studies. So they cloned Ripley's body to what it was at the moment of her death -- a body with a Queen alien about to burst out. So the took the queen, and kept Ripley alive to study her.
Now, Ripley has a slight amout of alien DNA mixed with her own, as a "flaw" of the cloning procedure. The Queen alien taken from the Ripley clone is also contaminated with a trace amout of Ripley's DNA. It has created normal eggs, but towards the end of the film it is also growing something else in a womb. The offspring is a human-alien hybrid.
So Ripley is about 98% human and 2% alien. The Queen is about 98% alien and 2% human. And their "offspring" is about 50% alien and 50% human.
soulsaver
15-10-2001, 17:05
Started reading this thread expecting alien and aliens=great alien3 and alien res=crap but I was wrong thank god (however I was expecting to see my view is the right one yours is the wrong one and sadly that has come up).
What do I think of the films, I enjoyed them all (the first 3 more so then the 4 like most people).
Everyone seem to like the first that seems pretty clear
The second, couldn't believe some people here didn't like it, but then again thats because I loved it, you guys who hated it are sitting there thinking how could I love it, each to their own I say.
For me it worked, it was not a repeat of the first one, which so many sequels are.
The third one (and most underrated one) Just can not see why people hate this one so much, I enjoyed it as much as the first two, a really good film, which IMO ended the saga quite nicely and hope that a fourth would never appear,but yet again each to their own.
And the fourth, well I didn't hate it as I thought I would. When I saw it I wiped the other 3 from my mind, I did not want a fourth, they were taking it too far IMO, they made their money lets leave it. Two good sequels the fourth was bound to be a bit poor. And imo I was right, not in the same league as the other 3 but I did enjoy it because I watch it with out comparing it to the rest.
I could not see how they could bring Ripely back too life, was we going to get a Dallas shower scene but the whole dna thing did work for me and I found it believable which was the thing I was most concerned about and would of killed the film for me had it been a dodgy shower scene or something. I also must be the only one here who thought the half-breed alien was very creepy looking.
Some of you guys need to go a watch it again(no offence or anything)but you don't seem to of got the plot or have any idea whats happening, but then again if you didn't enjoy it I suppose you would not of payed much attention to it, I know if I am not enjoying a film, I tend to take my mind of it.
Is no 5 on its way I hope not but I think it is going by the ending of the last one which would be a mistake. If they do then like a lot of others here I would like to see a big film, its been mention in the other films what might happen if the aliens got to earth, so lets see what happens then. Give it a big budget (the last one to me looked very cheap) and really go to town on it. It will never be on par with the first one, so move away from that and just go for a big no brain action film.
<b>Anyone slagging off Aliens is a bit silly I think</b>
Hmm, silly in what way ? I think it's eminently sensible for people to voice their own opinions.
<b>why is it so fashionable to knock James Cameron? </b>
Because he's a mediocre filmmaker who has been given too much attention at the expense of better ones ?
In any case, I've been slagging off "Aliens" since September 15th 1986, when I made the mistake of paying to see it in the cinema.
A question for the people who don't like Aliens.
Is it the film in general, or the overlong directors cut that you don't like?
For the next box set, could we have a seamless branching Aliens disc please?:D
Jimmyboy
15-10-2001, 23:13
Hmmm, James Cameron.
Personally, I don't think he deserves many of the critisism thrown at him.
He's one of the few directors that has managed to make sequels which are almost on-par with the original, and many would argue better than the original.
To achieve this twice with "Aliens" & "T2" deserves some credit, not to mention "Abyss" (which I actually can't stand but many people love) and dare I say "Titanic", which although is seriously flawed pap, still touched many many movie go-ers.
Cameron is an easy target for movie snobs.
He has a knack of covering up plot holes with huge explosions which don't sit well with many, but to try and stick him in the same box as George Lucas just isnt fair.
Originally posted by OAB
A question for the people who don't like Aliens.
Is it the film in general, or the overlong directors cut that you don't like?
For the next box set, could we have a seamless branching Aliens disc please?:D
Well bearing in mind I didn't see upon release (was too young to see it even in France where it got a 12 rating!) but I saw it when Alien 3 was released on the big screen in the original release cut. And I really was underwhelmed by it esp. as I was watching the (ex-)trilogy back to back. Where Alien had very few shots of the Alien at all until very late on in the film, Aliens seemed to have tried to emulate Gremlins filling the entire base with them - they are radically different films - and to be honest I'm just not a fan of action movies (The first one having John Hurt and Harry Dean Stanton in it made it pretty evident that there wasn't going to be much action!).
I did see the Director's cut a few years ago and really couldn't believe a) how bad it was (compared to the original cut) and b) that any director would stoop so low as to give such a self-indulgent cut.
To be fair giving Jeunet Alien: Resurrection was a weird choice expecially since 2 + 3 had taken such a different approach to the original. I felt it was quite a bit slower than 2+3 (good in my book!) and looked great. But Jeunet is not really an action movie director and I suppose it isn't really that action like and that's why so many dislike it .
I was and remain a Jeunet fan though and although it's his weakest film, I think it's great visually (and that's probably why he used such intense lighting; that and the fact he worked in advertising for so long!).
Kit_Taylor
15-10-2001, 23:50
IF YUO DONT LIEK ALIENS TAHT MEENS UR GAY1!!!!
I think Alien is overrated, in that it shows too much of the alien without the technology to back it up, most noticably the hilarious man-in-a-suit ending. Excellent set design though.
Aliens is dated by modern action standards, but it features superb characters, one of the best action movie scores ever and has the coolest concept of all the films. It also features some of the best hardware ever seen in a sci-fi film, and I think Jim Cameron's technology fetish is one of his strengths.
Alien 3 is a good film trapped inside a bad one.
Alien Res is a silly, excessive film that doesn't work because it doesn't make the leap into riotous insanity. Maybe that would have required an NC-17 rating though.
IMHO, of course.
EDIT - Doesn't (doh! me = dumb)
http://members.tripod.co.uk/splobber/smilies/troll.gif
But seriously,
Alien 3 is a good film trapped inside a bad one.
A very good summation, another one would be a 'Failed masterpiece'
Originally posted by Kit_Taylor
IF YUO DONT LIEK ALIENS TAHT MEENS UR GAY1!!!!
Well I was unaware a scientific link had been discovered between preferring good directing and top-notch cinematography over gadgets and special fx and being gay but there you go... :D
>Alien 3 is a good film trapped inside a bad one.
I thought that the original idea for 3 explained in the doc ('monk world' all wood & no technology) was a fantastic idea, great way to go in a different direction. The result ('convicts' in psuedo-industrial) was dissappointment, but still a good movie compared with some of the trash at the time.
A4 - well, better on 2nd viewing last night, but a very variable film - Ripley good, hyrid bad(borrowed from fly2?)
IF YUO DONT LIEK ALIENS TAHT MEENS UR GAY1!!!!
Is this your personal registration plate ?
Aliens is dated by modern action standards, but it features superb characters, one of the best action movie scores ever and has the coolest concept of all the films. It also features some of the best hardware ever seen in a sci-fi film, and I think Jim Cameron's technology fetish is one of his strengths.
What's the concept ? And what, god forbid, is Cameron's technology fetish ?!
Alien Res is a silly, excessive film that doesn't work because it does make the leap into riotous insanity.
Any film that leaps into riotous insanity sounds like a must-see to me !
Lenny Nero
16-10-2001, 08:50
Cameron is one of the few exciting directors that steadily keeps making great movies, including David Lynch and Cronenberg... I would also add Albert Pyun but it's like a personal "guilty pleasure" director which doesn't really belong here and I'll get flamed for liking him hehe :o
All Cameron movies were awesome, maybe not Pirahna II but he still did his best.
Titanic was just overly promoted and too much in your face with that song and blah blah, but it's actually really good, I cried twice on it, and not when that prick finally froze and went under but when the band kept playing as the ship sank and when the skipper died. :( :D
Abyss/T2/Aliens are all on the same level and 3 of his best, we like to blame people's tastes when they dont agree with ours, and shouldn't do that but it's obvious that anyone who doesnt like Aliens just doesnt really like great futuristic action sci-fi.
avid fan
16-10-2001, 08:59
I've just worked my way through this thread, and it seems that just about every possible opinion of the films has been aired, but I'll still give mine anyway.
Watched Alien Res for the first time last night. Didn't see it at the cinema because of the dire reviews it got, and so wasn't expecting much. As a result of this, I was pleasantly surprised. While it's no great film, it had enough imagination and tension to keep me hooked, and I enjoy seeing Ron Perlman whenever he's on screen. I also quite enjoyed the alien hybrid - it's something new anyway. What I really wanted after seeing that was a fight between the hybrid and the other aliens in the ship - that would've been good.
Alien 3. Oh dear. The story ended at the end of Aliens, so
Killing off Hicks and Newt was completely pointless, and only due to the impracticalities of bringing back the actors (Newt -too old when filming, Hicks - I'm hoping Michael Biehn turned it down).
HOWEVER - taken on its own, judged on its own merits (pretend you'd never seen Alien & Aliens) I thought it was pretty good - again, some really tense moments, and moody atmos.
Aliens I must have watched a million times, and I think is definately one of the most enjoyable films ever, if not one of the best films ever.
Alien is also excellent, although it doesn't have that high repeat-viewing factor that Aliens has.
So, I think in summary, 3 and 4 are no great films like one and two, and don't hold up well when compared to these. But watched on their own, they make a good night's entertainment.
robbiejm
16-10-2001, 10:26
Originally posted by Jimmyboy
Cameron is an easy target for movie snobs.
I have 2 criticisms of Cameron:
For allowing that cloth-eared warbling Canadian bint on the soundtrack of Titanic. Unforgiveable.
Casting that annoying little muppet in T2, possibly the most irritating 'actor' since any of The Goonies.
I've cut the request for spoiler tags in avid fan's post...
Originally posted by robbiejm
I have 2 criticisms of Cameron:
For allowing that cloth-eared warbling Canadian bint on the soundtrack of Titanic. Unforgiveable.
Casting that annoying little muppet in T2, possibly the most irritating 'actor' since any of The Goonies.
Hardly makes him a mediocre director though does it? :)
Okay, Celion Dion is unbearable but I thought Ed Furlong was okay in T2, I thought he suited the role pretty well.
Cameron is an easy target for movie snobs.
I agree, compare T2 or Aliens to The Mummy or Tomb Raider. Big blockbusters used to be good. Just because he is mainstream makes him an easy target.
robbiejm
16-10-2001, 11:57
Originally posted by Tob
Hardly makes him a mediocre director though does it? :)
Exactly, that was my point. :)
Okay, Celion Dion is unbearable but I thought Ed Furlong was okay in T2, I thought he suited the role pretty well.
He's an annoying little _ _ _ _. Fill in the blanks. :D
Originally posted by robbiejm
He's an annoying little _ _ _ _. Fill in the blanks. :D
So I suppose American History X (praised to high heaven in another thread) is a "bad film" because of him as well? ;)
Seriously I think Furlong was probably about as good as they could have done, it's not often you get excellent child actors popping up.
robbiejm
16-10-2001, 13:51
Originally posted by sampath
So I suppose American History X (praised to high heaven in another thread) is a "bad film" because of him as well? ;)
Seriously I think Furlong was probably about as good as they could have done, it's not often you get excellent child actors popping up.
I haven't seen American History X, and I never said T2 was a 'bad film' because of him. I just said he was irritating.
Originally posted by Preacher
I though the Alien in Alien 3 looked a lot worse that the ones in Resurrection. It moved like something made by Ray Harryhausen!not to mention the fact that it changes size from shot to shot in the same scene.
I can't explain the variance of the Alien's size in the shots - it did appear to be very large imediately after 'exiting' the dog but it's movement? Well...
..I thought they were going to explore a theme but didn't. Ripley stated that this Alien was different and moved differently from the one's she'd seen before. I got the hint that this was due to the host being a dog. In the past the hosts had all been human and we'd seen a familiar shaped Alien throughout.
Maybe the species of host affects the ultimate physical shape of the Alien.
Didn't they touch on that issue in the Alien Doc on Saturday when talking about the Aliens life cycle?
Originally posted by john316
Didn't they touch on that issue in the Alien Doc on Saturday when talking about the Aliens life cycle?
Sorry, I don't know, I missed the documentary. :(
Lenny Nero
17-10-2001, 22:23
Originally posted by Morton
Sorry, I don't know, I missed the documentary. :(
Well they wanted to try something different, and it was a male alien, like the Father or whatever. And it grew fast, it didnt of course fit all into that little poor dog.
thomasc1982
18-10-2001, 15:30
I have never actually seen Aliens all the way through... I saw it on TV once but fell asleep and then on my brothers dvd I feel asleep again! I serioulsy found it that dull. But I normally like Cameron films (The terminator films are fantastic IMHO). But Aliens was pretty lame. Although Alien Resurection was FAR FAR worse. Maybe I will have to try Aliens again, I'll i just skip the first hour or so....
Just Call Me Wanda
18-10-2001, 22:59
Just Call Me Wanda - i totally agree with your summation of why Alien Res is a bum wrap of a movie.
Well...it's nice to be appreciated.... ;)
Just Call Me Wanda
18-10-2001, 23:47
Originally posted by sampath
Hmm... not too sure about that one.
Now presumably the queen at the end wasn't the same one tha was taken out of Ripley, as that one reproduces by laying eggs. So Ripley is -in effect- the "grandmother" of the Queen at the end.
So I'd guess the queen at the end "grew" the womb-thing because she's an 'alien-human hybrid' of some sort. I have no idea what No 8 (she is not Ripley) and the Alien "did" in the end (looked pretty wierd :eek: ) but the queen couldn't have grown the "womb" as a result of that, as that'd mean she's able to grow it in a matter of minutes....
.... if you get my drift.
Or you could conclude that Alien 4 is a rather crappy film with no logic whatsoever....
PS: wonder what happens if Ripley No 8 reproduced? Maybe she'll grow an egg sac of some sort... :eek: :eek:
The way I read into this 'drab' movie and this convoluted 'plot' point was that the Quen alien had been the one taken from Ripley. It therefore had some human DNA or whatever like Ripley had some 'alien' in her. This enabled the queen to produce a womb like humans and enabled her to have a hybrid alien that was 50/50 human/alien. The Queen probably mated with one of the aliens. I don't like the idea of Ripley mating with the alien. I mean Joss Whedon had already destroyed the alien saga by writing the damn fourth episode - and then he resorts to such tactics as Ripley having sex with the alien! I mean, come on! This is going a little further than Buffy the Vampire Slayer losing her 'flower' to Angel, her Vampire lover!
Just Call Me Wanda
19-10-2001, 00:04
Originally posted by Morton
I can't explain the variance of the Alien's size in the shots - it did appear to be very large imediately after 'exiting' the dog but it's movement? Well...
..I thought they were going to explore a theme but didn't. Ripley stated that this Alien was different and moved differently from the one's she'd seen before. I got the hint that this was due to the host being a dog. In the past the hosts had all been human and we'd seen a familiar shaped Alien throughout.
Maybe the species of host affects the ultimate physical shape of the Alien.
It was Ridley Scott who mentioned that whatever the 'alien' used as a host, then it would be moulded around that host.
So:
In Alien one - a deleted scene showed the 'alien' the stand on two legs much like a man/woman, because it came from a human host.
In Aliens, apparently (speculation) there were bull aliens that came from such hosts. I think the scene where the aliens are trying to break down the door and Vasquez says, 'whatever you're gonna do, do it fast' is supposed to be a bull alien.
In Alien 3, the alien stands on all fours much like a dog, and it moves extremely quickly and low to the ground (shown in the fast moving corridor scenes) much like a dog.
Just Call Me Wanda
19-10-2001, 00:19
I have never actually seen Aliens all the way through...
You must watch this fantastic film from minute one to minute 160 odd!
I saw it on TV once but fell asleep and then on my brothers dvd I feel asleep again! I serioulsy found it that dull.
Each to their own, but if you haven't seen the alien nest fight, the sentry gun units perimetre defense, the Ripley/Newt/facehugger's attack, the alien invasion of operations, the brilliant vent shaft fight, Ripley V Alien Queen 1, Ripley V Alien Queen 2 and Ripley V Alien Queen 3, then you haven't seen anything yet!
But I normally like Cameron films (The terminator films are fantastic IMHO).
'The Terminator', 'The Abyss' and 'Aliens' are his best work. Don't miss Aliens!
But Aliens was pretty lame.
A judgement based on an hour's viewing? If you're an alien fan then the first hour is just as good as the next 14 hours 17 minutes, but if you're not then the good stuff is lying in wait for you!
Although Alien Resurection was FAR FAR worse.
FAR, FAR worse doesn't tell the half of it. In fact these films can hardly be compared. Don't look down on Aliens because Alien 4 is so cr@p - it's like you dont' look down on a dog because it eats it's own *****!
Maybe I will have to try Aliens again, I'll i just skip the first hour or so....
It's a must!
Jimmyboy
19-10-2001, 01:13
Originally posted by Just Call Me Wanda
Don't look down on Aliens because Alien 4 is so cr@p - it's like you dont' look down on a dog because it eats it's own *****!
http://members.tripod.co.uk/Jimmy0boy/clock.jpg
dangermouse
19-10-2001, 02:35
Don't suppose anyone here has seen the Directors Cut of Alien 3 by any chance? I know I've seen it on Ebay from time to time, but anyone know if it is a vast improvement?
Its especially annoying that the Alien3 trailer contains footage that isn't in the actual movie.
I love all of Jim Camerons work, though I've always liked one critics summary of Aliens: Rambo Goes to Mars :D
Lenny Nero
19-10-2001, 06:07
Originally posted by dangermouse
Don't suppose anyone here has seen the Directors Cut of Alien 3 by any chance? I know I've seen it on Ebay from time to time, but anyone know if it is a vast improvement?
Its especially annoying that the Alien3 trailer contains footage that isn't in the actual movie.
I love all of Jim Camerons work, though I've always liked one critics summary of Aliens: Rambo Goes to Mars :D
There is a director's cut of Alien 3?!
Never heard of it, what is it a bootleg VHS copy of some laser disc release or what?
There is a director's cut of Alien 3?! It isn't on the IMDB.......:eek: :eek: :eek:
dangermouse
19-10-2001, 12:52
Originally posted by Lenny Nero
There is a director's cut of Alien 3?!
Never heard of it, what is it a bootleg VHS copy of some laser disc release or what?
It's even more obscure than that - apparently the extended bootleg edition of Alien 3 was taken from the studio production reels before Fox did the previews to those braindead Californian teens (as mentioned on the Alien documentary on Channel 4 last week) and cut it up.
So basically it is what could be called 'The David Fincher cut'. As also mentioned on that Channel 4 documentary by Charles Dance, he said something like "the movie we made was good, but the version they released was....ok"
There is also a 'studio rough cut' version of Bram Stoker's Dracula that turns up quite often on Ebay, this version contains around 30 different changes including alterations to scenes, some different music, an alternate ending and a topless Winona Ryder scene which was cut from when she seduces Van Helsing.
So in summary: These versions are out there, but they are not official yet. What puts me off is that you will be watching a copy of an NTSC VHS video, which would I imagine, be almost unwatchable.
Just Call Me Wanda
19-10-2001, 13:44
Alien 3 Review (http://www.dtonline.net/movies/fincher1.html)
This review comes from a die hard Fincher fan, however, it draws upon many aspects of which I totally agree with, and what, in my opinion make the film so good.
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