View Full Version : How to spot a pirate version of a R1 Lady & The Tramp - anyone got an original?
rogeralpine
07-11-2003, 17:48
Just received a copy of the region 1 version of Lady & The Tramp from a seller in the states. Beofre bidding I confirmed with him that it was a legit original release.
Having now received it, I'm having second thoughts about whether it's an original. If it's a "fake" it's a damned good one.
The inlay card is double sided - as per my other R1 Disneys - but has a more plastic feel/shine to to it - as opposed to being a bit more cardboard feel. The cover is cardboard style as per my others Disneys, but the smaller text on the rear cover looks slightly out of focus.
The disk looks legit - although the colours look a bit faded - but I can't see any signs of it being a home jobbie.
If anyone has an orginal (or at least think they have) I'd like to ry and compare the two.
Interesting quote from the seller as well!!
"i never leave feedback until it is left for me first , that way i know for sure that the transaction was a success , if you want to leeve feedback early , even right now , i will do the same for you"
This shouldn't be normal ebay practice should it? His user ID was bowrider032. He also sells many DVDs - as well as other "original" Disneys
:rolleyes:
None of the neg feedback indicated a sign of anything dodgy. (98.7% anyway)
Just further checked on his auctions - can he really have this many OOP titles?
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=bowrider032&sort=3&rows=25&since=-1&rd=1
I have a fake from Amazon.
It has no inlay at all and the disc is printed on the inside silver rim (The Lady and the Tramp) which of course is the wrong title. There is no "the" in the title at all.
I have no hologram but then this is supposed to be an R1 anyway.
Bit off topic , but is the reg1 release in widescreen by any chance??
saltysam
07-11-2003, 21:45
yes,i have the original.,it's 2.35.1 widescreen.
rogeralpine
08-11-2003, 05:25
Umm - 'tis widescreen 2.35.1 non-anamorphic, but that's the easy bit to duplicate though
Walrus Man
08-11-2003, 05:30
Originally posted by CLH
It has no inlay at all and the disc is printed on the inside silver rim (The Lady and the Tramp) which of course is the wrong title. There is no "the" in the title at all.So what is the correct title, Lady and Tramp? :confused:
rogeralpine
08-11-2003, 05:44
Originally posted by Walrus Man
So what is the correct title, Lady and Tramp? :confused:
I thought what? at first - but he meant the 1st "The" -
The Lady and the Tramp
Saltysam - I wonder if you could you do me a favour please and check what numbers are etched into the DVD?
Mine has E4107 and E3504 - and the E3504 bit is printed on the front as part of the disk description put there by Disney - so it could be genuine?
It's the inlay card I'm particularly concerned about - it half feels like plastic.
Sorry!
To clear up the correct title is
LADY AND THE TRAMP
there is NO THE!!!!
DeadKenny
08-11-2003, 10:49
The Bond one's he's selling are dead easy to get hold of. They go out of print for a short period each year, so people like this rip buyers off by trying to claim they're rare in some way. All you need to do is buy a bulk load on the next release period, wait until they're deleted next year, and flog them for a fortune on ebay with plenty of "LOOK!!! - RARE!" etc. ;)
Dodgy Disney DVDs often have 'DTS' logos on discs that don't have DTS, as well as no hologram. Usually the seller comes from Thailand though.
rogeralpine
08-11-2003, 11:05
There's no hologram - but my other "official" r1 releases don't either.
Walrus Man
08-11-2003, 12:22
Originally posted by CLH
To clear up the correct title is
LADY AND THE TRAMP
there is NO THE!!!! Looks like you still have a "the" in the title. ;)
So there is a "the", but only one, and not at the beginning... (as confirmed by rogeralpine's earlier post, however, I just couldn't resist picking up on your mistake again, sorry). :D
Originally posted by Walrus Man
I just couldn't resist picking up on your mistake again, sorry). :D[/SIZE]
I think it's fairly clear now :D
saltysam
08-11-2003, 13:23
there is a inlay card with a repeat of the cover on the front and a chapter listing on the back.also has a mail-in certificate for a disney dvd promotion.the number on the disc is E3504.hope this helps...ps comes in a white amaray case.
Originally posted by CLH
I think it's fairly clear now :D
Yes, as mud :nuts:
rogeralpine
08-11-2003, 20:49
Originally posted by saltysam
there is a inlay card with a repeat of the cover on the front and a chapter listing on the back.also has a mail-in certificate for a disney dvd promotion.the number on the disc is E3504.hope this helps...ps comes in a white amaray case.
...is the inlay card the made of the same "card" as the cover or is it a thinner more plastic affair?
Is the E3504 number repeated on the reat of the disk?
Julian K
08-11-2003, 21:39
It should be pretty easy to tell a bootleg from an original copy.
Look at the front of the sleeve. Is the "Walt Disney's Lady and the Tramp" box shiny gold, or muddy brown? It should be slightly shiny. Even it's yours is a very good colour photocopy, the shiny gold box will be brown. (The box on the insert is dull brown - if your sleeve is similar, I'd say "fake").
The text on the back (even the tiny print at the bottom) should be pin sharp. (It's possible that the cover you have is badly printed, but unlikely, I'd say).
The "full colour character artwork" on the disc should also be very sharp.
Did your disc come in a white box? Mine did. If yours didn't, it doesn't mean it's a fake, of course, but if it did, then I'd say that's a good sign.
My disc was duplicated by Nimbus / CA (you can see from looking at the data side of the disc). It also has the numbers E3504 and C3,4 150707-05 stamped on it, and - in microscopic letters - something like IFPI L894.
saltysam
08-11-2003, 22:55
aren't most boots region free?if you can set your player to region 2 only and try the disc that may be of some help...
rogeralpine
08-11-2003, 23:00
This is a close call - I'm inclined to think it's a fake (they say you should always go with your gut feeling)
The sleeve has probably given the game away Julian. The area you specify certainly doesn't shine and certainly doesn't look gold in colour.
As well, could you possibly check the surface of the printed side of the DVD. Mine looks washed out - certainly isn't particularly vibrant - and is smooth as a babies bum when you rub your finger across it. Other Disneys I've checked you can almost feel the roughness of the print - they have a slight raised texture about them. Saying that, the E3504 number on the Disney print on the front of the disk is duplicated on the rear "within" the disk - this would have been created at the stage of manufacture. So is the IFPI number you mention. Strangely though the other longer number is not there - in fact there are no other numbers at all.
When I logged into the Disney technical help page, amongst other things I was asked for this number (standard question) - which I could not supply.
Mine did come in a white amaray - not too difficult I suppose to get hold of though.
Another thing that has made me extremely suspcious about this whole affair is the fact he won't leave feedback until I've left him some! This smells, as if I leave neg feedback, he will no doubt reciprocate and screw my small level of feedback up. At this stage though unless I do a direct side by side comparison , it's going to be difficult to prove it's a fake.
rogeralpine
08-11-2003, 23:10
Originally posted by saltysam
aren't most boots region free?if you can set your player to region 2 only and try the disc that may be of some help...
.....good thinking - if it's region free though, won't it play in any player no matter what region it is set to? Is there some tool that you can use on a PC that can identify the region? (..ahhh - I can set WinDVD to a region other than 1 - if it plays it it means it region free!!)
doh! - same applies to a stand alone DVD player!
I found an R2 copy at a car boot sale for a tenner :D
rogeralpine
08-11-2003, 23:20
:oh-hum: :mad:
Frig - it's a fake!! Set WinDVD to R2 and it played no problem - nice one Salty:thumbs:
The git even mailed me to confirm it was a legit copy - I only checked his feedback and I can't believe no one has placeed neg about him selling pirates!! In future I will check the sellers other auctions - multiple copies possibly indicates something fishy.
I tell you, this is one bloody good copy. Lets see whether Disney are actually interested considering I've asked them to comment.
rogeralpine
08-11-2003, 23:22
Originally posted by Joober
I found an R2 copy at a car boot sale for a tenner :D
I've got a few R2 originals as well!!;) :thumbs:
rogeralpine
08-11-2003, 23:25
....back on track, anyone got any suggestions as to the best way of dealing with this scumbag? I want to avoid receiving neg feedback myself, but at the same time I want to name and shame this "not so nice person"!
I'd edit your post before you think about doing anything else ;)
would definately neg him :thumbs:
DeadKenny
09-11-2003, 01:13
I'd heard if you wait 30 days, then leave feedback, he can't leave any on you, or something like that.
rogeralpine
09-11-2003, 07:31
Originally posted by DeadKenny
I'd heard if you wait 30 days, then leave feedback, he can't leave any on you, or something like that.
:confused: ....if that's correct I think I may give it a go.
Walrus Man
09-11-2003, 07:38
Originally posted by rogeralpine
:confused: ....if that's correct I think I may give it a go. I thought the feedback window applied to both seller and buyer. :confused:
Even so, if you could work out exactly when it ends, you could leave him negative feedback within the last minute or so of this window, giving him no time to respond. :D
abarthman
09-11-2003, 08:33
If you neg him after thirty days, hel'll have another sixty days in which to retaliate! :eek:
Neg him after ninety days. :)
I'm not sure the exact time when this this feedback window closes.
Is it ninety days to the very minute after the end of the auction, midnight UK time ninety days after the end of the auction, or midnight US time ninety days after the end of the auction? :confused:
What I can't understand is why people actually buy any dvds off eBay in the first place? Nearly every day someone buys a pirated copy and moans about it here......
rogeralpine
09-11-2003, 11:01
Originally posted by Xenole
What I can't understand is why people actually buy any dvds off eBay in the first place? Nearly every day someone buys a pirated copy and moans about it here......
:confused: :nono:
1st time I've been stung m8 - and I've not seen too many threads about this tbh! I'm not moaning - in any case, if my experience prevents another greenish ebayer avoiding this then I think it's worthwhile.
I thought I'd done my homework trying to find a legit copy. Only the previous week I bought an original copy off ebay.com of Snow White double disk without any probs - all for the bargain price of 14.00. I will pursue to obtain an original of Lady & The Tramp (R1) - if you can point me in another "safer" route I'd be most obliged!:rolleyes: Perhaps you have one available?
That's the problem isn't it Roger, I've been after Jungle Book and Cinderlla but even the copies on Ebay go for stupid money.
The trouble is there's no alternative :(
rogeralpine
09-11-2003, 12:11
Originally posted by Roy
That's the problem isn't it Roger, I've been after Jungle Book and Cinderlla but even the copies on Ebay go for stupid money.
The trouble is there's no alternative :(
Quite true - there are legit copies to be had, it's just you have to look very carefully.
btw, Cinderella - do you not mean Cinderella II;) (Although isn't that easy to get hold of?)
No I did mean Cinderella, although I just remembered there is no DVD for it is there?
buffyangel108
09-11-2003, 15:49
Slightly OT here - can anyone tell me which Disney's have been released on DVD in widescreen... don't think it's worth upgrading my VHS for fullscreen DVDs but would definitely like all the widescreeners :D
TIA :)
rogeralpine
09-11-2003, 16:12
Originally posted by Roy
No I did mean Cinderella, although I just remembered there is no DVD for it is there?
No, it's not out on DVD yet. It is due for release in 2006 - although fter just reading thar wave 3 of the Treasures has been put back to May 2004.:nono: :razz: :mad:
rogeralpine
09-11-2003, 16:21
Originally posted by buffyangel108
Slightly OT here - can anyone tell me which Disney's have been released on DVD in widescreen... don't think it's worth upgrading my VHS for fullscreen DVDs but would definitely like all the widescreeners :D
TIA :)
Not sure ou tof all of them which are widescreen - I know Jungle Book isn't and the R2 version of Lady & The Tramp (the R1 version is - non-anamorphic though)
theblairwitch
09-11-2003, 16:32
Hi there,
Know it is a bit after the event - but I just sold my (definite) orig R1 Lady & The Tramp on the bay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=35014&item=3359814937) .
Pics for the auction are crap but I'm happy to check anything for you - disc pix etc.
Cheers.
Simon
rogeralpine
09-11-2003, 21:00
Thx Simon - I've hopefully ascertained that mine is a fake (the fact it seems to be a region free disk gives it away)
A useful experience and one I will definitely learn from. It's very difficult to tell by your pics that it is different to the one I have. I would imagibe side by side the difference would be quite noticeable - but I suppose the beauty of this (from the sellers point of view) is that he/she knows that the buyer hasn't got an original to compare it with.
theblairwitch
09-11-2003, 21:33
Tis true.
Sorry that you've been stung. Certainly the feedback trick is to wait til the 90th day and throw your neg in when the US is asleep ;)
All the best,
Simon
hookbeak
10-11-2003, 07:58
On thing : if it took you this much trouble to determine if it's a fake or not - how can you be sure the seller knew it was a fake ?
rogeralpine
10-11-2003, 09:56
Originally posted by hookbeak
On thing : if it took you this much trouble to determine if it's a fake or not - how can you be sure the seller knew it was a fake ?
.....I should have checked his other auctions in detail 1st, but I have since found out he's selling quite a few of these titles. If he was only selling one I perhaps could have given him the benefit of the doubt, but as he's selling loads - and under different ebay unser accounts as well:nono: - it can really only mean one thing IMHO!
Before I was really certain it was a fake, I filled in one of Disney's technical problem pages. It will be interesting to see whether they're bothered or not and want further details.
Originally posted by rogeralpine
Before I was really certain it was a fake, I filled in one of Disney's technical problem pages. It will be interesting to see whether they're bothered or not and want further details.
Left numerous calls with their UK CS about my fake and they're not bothered at all.
rogeralpine
10-11-2003, 11:31
If a seller wants to risk his/her luck selling bogus "Asian" copies or whatever, then that's their lookout IMO. I'll leave them to it.
It's when I am told a complete lie by a seller which really is out of order - he cannot claim to have "mislead" me, he deliberately told me a bare-faced lie.
I understand ebay are equally inept at doing anything further as well against such sellers.
Have you emailed him for an explanation?
rogeralpine
10-11-2003, 12:14
Originally posted by Tob
Have you emailed him for an explanation?
I have toyed with the idea - one of his other aliases mentions he will refund if not happy for any reason. If this means sending the item back though before getting a refund I won't be happy.
At the end of the day I can't see him changing his stance - he's told me once it's an original and the chances are he'll say it's me who's got it wrong. Without the fact that the disk is region free, I would be hard pressed to be absolutely certain this was a fake.
I think I'm going to cut my losses and try and award neg feedback on the 90th day. I can't aford myself to have neg feedback - I'm on 9 currently and want a 10 rating so that I can use the "Buy it now" feature for some stuff I have lined up to sell. It's annoying me that this seller is effectively holding me to ransom on the feedback stakes. Becasue of this I'm bloody minded to somehow show restraint, bide my time and strike on day 90!!
Nick dVl
10-11-2003, 15:32
Doesn't FACT have a number or website you can try? I don't think they could get away with the argument that "they didn't know it was a fake". He's clearly selling bogus (and stolen!) merchandise.
That being said, just don't buy any sort of software on eBay! I'd rather have a pristine authentic copy of a film in my collection than some dodgy secondhand knockoff...but that's just me. ;)
rogeralpine
10-11-2003, 21:47
Originally posted by Nick dVl
That being said, just don't buy any sort of software on eBay! I'd rather have a pristine authentic copy of a film in my collection than some dodgy secondhand knockoff...but that's just me. ;)
Exactly, it's only due to my "stupidity" that I have left myself without any alternative but to look for an OOP version on the 2nd hand market. Even Amazon marketplace has it's problems does it not? There are also our very own classified sections - but such titles only seem to come along once in a blue moon (although we've had a couple of blue moons over the last 3 months!:p )
There are too many titles I mean to pick up but never get round to doing so. Before you know it some of these go OOP and you're left scouring the 2nd hand market. I managed to pck up the Disney tins without too much problem and not a trace of a fake on the way.
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