View Full Version : Big plasma screens or rear projectors - are they all crap?
An LG 42" plasma caught my eye in Safeways the other day. From about 50 feet away it looked highly impressive. Up close it was less so - dodgy TV signal - and they didn't have a DVD player hooked up to give it a proper testing. The missus was immediately hooked on the idea of getting some huge screen though...
So off to John Lewis in MK to have a look at their range. The same screen was there hooked up to a DVD player, and it was an absolutely atrocious picture - looked like a highly compressed JPEG. We looked at more including really expensive ones (4,500 mark, Hitachis and Toshibas) and they were just as bad.
Off to a Dixons where the picture on a Samsung 42" plasma was so bad we fell about laughing, which didn't impress the sales droid trying to flog it to some couple who weren't looking too impressed anyway but walked off when I couldn't help myself from saying 'Bloody hell that's really crap'. Loudly. It looked like the results of applying a dilate filter to an image - i.e. everything was blocks of colour rather than smooth gradients.
Also had a look at a few rear projection TVs and the pictures on them, while not suffering from the awful digital artifacts, were so dark and lacking in contrast you'd have eye strain within minutes.
So we go home, I do a bit of research and find the whole 'new technology' range of screens appear to be, basically, pants. Limited life span, dead pixels not classing as a fault, on screen logos being burned in, etc. etc. And this is not cheap kit!
And a read of a few reviews of large screen CRT TVs finds worrying reports of juddering glitches, pulsating brightness, etc.
Surely there's a decent option for a big screen (no projectors please, they sound like the worst of all worlds)?
NicolaUK
08-10-2003, 11:07
Originally posted by DamienB
Also had a look at a few rear projection TVs and the pictures on them, while not suffering from the awful digital artifacts, were so dark and lacking in contrast you'd have eye strain within minutes.
We've got a Sony 44" RPTV, the picture from Sky is great esp but dvds are :clap:
They always look crap in stores though!
I am of the same opinion as yourself as regards all this new technology :)
I still think it is hard to beat a decent CRT. Personally I have a Panasonic 36" [PL10] and I regard it as the best purchase I have ever made in my life! :luv: [over 50yrs now ;) ]
The superb picture is so natural and I never tire of looking at it! No judders, pulsating pictures or digital artifacts here - don't believe all the generalisations you read about 100Hz - if it's done well it's excellent.
I see in the What Hi Fi Awards 2003 issue that they rate the latest 36" Panny Acuity set as quote " the best telly we've ever seen - Panasonic has made a TV the like of which we've never seen before. Quite simply it's the best we've ever tested."
http://www.panasonic.co.uk/widescreen-flat-tv/tx36pd30/index.htm
This latest model TX-36PD30 is shown by them at £1,700 but can be had on the net for just over £1,500 which is a total bargain! It also accepts Progressive scan PAL and NTSC through component connections of course.
Haven't seen this one in the flesh but looks very cool :thumbs:
As regards projectors I think they are the ultimate for a huge picture [I]provided they are set up properly!
And obviously there is a huge range spanning a large price differential so you've really got to spend a lot of money to get a decent one.
In the meantime I'll be sticking with my 36" CRT :thumbs:
Very happy with my Pioneer... its all about the source... and there is no point going too close to any picture whether it be TV, Plasma, LCD or Projector...
Jelly Baby
08-10-2003, 11:45
Go and see a CRT RP in a darkish room. I can't see how you could say lacking in brightness/contrast (even at 50% for both)
RP's look rubbish in shops due to high ambient lighting. You brush them off just because of this artificially bright room. If sunlight/fluorescent light hits the screen it washes out the contrast, making it look awful.
I do agree with you regarding Plasma:gag: Go round a mate's house with a proper setup CRT RP and you'll be astounded.:thumbs:
They always setup instore models badly. My guessing is they had some cheap dvd player hooked up to it and an even worse non-anamorphic film. If I were serious about buying a large screen the larger outlets are the last place I'd be. See if you can get a demo somewhere else, even take along your own DVD if needed.
sideshowbob
08-10-2003, 15:24
I don't really think your generalisations are warranted, DamienB.
Fair enough all these types of display have their strengths and weaknesses, but it most certainly isn't a case of all these displays in all cases are crap.
First step is to stop looking in noddy shops like Comet, Currys, Dixons and the like.
Second, you look at the sets using the typical sources you'd use (analogue TV, SKY, DVD) and look at them in the type of conditions you'd be looking at them at home.
All screens look funny close up. You're bound to notice the screen mask, screen door, pixel structure etc. if your face is mere inches from the screen. But the point is that it is a big screen, you aren't supposed to be that close.
Radiohead
08-10-2003, 15:45
Don't listen to sideshowbob Damien, he's gay and likes to fiddle with giraffe's pods.
sideshowbob
08-10-2003, 16:42
Originally posted by Radiohead
Don't listen to sideshowbob Damien, he's gay and likes to fiddle with giraffe's pods.
It was you who insisted on taking me to the zoo, RH. So don't start slinging mud ... ya big ginger mud-plugger.
Originally posted by sideshowbob
It was you who insisted on taking me to the zoo, RH. So don't start slinging mud ... ya big ginger mud-plugger.
It wasn't actually a zoo mate, that was RH's front room, you may have noticed how unconvincing his giraffe outfit was.
sideshowbob
08-10-2003, 19:22
Originally posted by Roy
It wasn't actually a zoo mate, that was RH's front room, you may have noticed how unconvincing his giraffe outfit was.
That giraffe's long neck wasn't that long either, now you mention it. And its breath smelled funny too.
:suspect:
Originally posted by sideshowbob
Second, you look at the sets using the typical sources you'd use (analogue TV, SKY, DVD) and look at them in the type of conditions you'd be looking at them at home.
Not possible in any shop I've ever seen...
All screens look funny close up. You're bound to notice the screen mask, screen door, pixel structure etc. if your face is mere inches from the screen. But the point is that it is a big screen, you aren't supposed to be that close.
I'm smart enough to stand several feet away and the plasmas still looked crap. And that doesn't address the dead pixels, short lifespan, burn-in issues. Anything costing that much should absolutely not have such faults.
sideshowbob
08-10-2003, 22:15
Originally posted by DamienB
Not possible in any shop I've ever seen...
Well I've been in a few listening rooms myself and they've generally had controllable lighting and can at least show you a DVD and the normal telly. That's all I mean, I'm not expecting them to have an exact replica of your house.
Originally posted by DamienB
I'm smart enough to stand several feet away and the plasmas still looked crap. And that doesn't address the dead pixels, short lifespan, burn-in issues. Anything costing that much should absolutely not have such faults.
Well I guess plasmas just ain't for you then. Why not just sell a kidney and buy yourself the biggest Loewe CRT set you can afford. Even the :dork: s at avforums (who complain about the minutest faults) are agreed on the wonder of Loewe tellys.
:)
No dead pixels on mine, Short-life span ? (ten years is enough for me) and burn-in.... I think a CRT can burn as well...
I sit the same distance away as I did from my 29" CRT... about 7 feet... and yes you can see some artifacts on some broadcast or cheap dvd sources... but could see those on the crt as well.
Having a bigger screen does show up any defects in the source material... old episodes of Star Trek do look naff... but compare this to the latest material and there are no defects.
I am happy with my screen... and I thought I would have to keep justifying the cost to myself... but I dont, its Great :D
Dan Druff
09-10-2003, 11:02
I used to have a projector and now have a 32" CRT. But for bigger 2.35:1 and 4:3 images plasma or RPTV is the only way to go. I can't go front projection anymore, CRT max size is about 37" and I considered that except most would be too close to my left and right speakers. Like that all RPTV (except DLP) would also be affected by lack of magnetic shielding on my part. Plasma is the way to go in my case..certainly the Hitachi, Panasonic, and pixel plus Philips models I've seen looked superb..42" at a viewing distance of about 13 feet with component quality images (on both digibox with converter, and DVD player) should be more than acceptable, certainly superior to my current setup which lacks. The main problems with plasmas are screen burn, dead pixels, jaggies and grey black levels..some plasmas beat screen burn with pixel shift and other methods. Dead pixels can be a problem but not that common. It of course depends on the plasma with regard to jaggies and grey blacks, poor contrast. Each plasma is different..also the fact that its much slimmer than CRT is a major bonus, in my case a necessity (I want to move the centre speaker from its current location and I'm pretty limited with a 51kg CRT monster)..I figure I'll get 15 - 20 years out of it, it won't be used much before 8pm.
Grandmaster
09-10-2003, 11:17
DamienB - I honestly think you should go to an AV specialist who will have the screens set up properly and fed with good quality sources. They'll also have a selection of superior screens.
The short lifespan of a plasma TV is pretty much an old wives tale and screen burn is vastly over-exaggerated. Go to Waterloo Station and look at the screens there for what screen burn *really* is - with plasma a static image can "linger" on the screen if you leave it for hours and hours and hours, but it is not "burned" in, it fades quickly (depends on how long the static image has been on-screen). Most screens come with built-in utilities that get rid of this "ghosting" too.
Plasma technology has a long way to go, yes, but get a good one (not a Samsung, Relysis or LG!) and connect up good quality video sources and you'll have an excellent, very big display.
I've got a Hitachi 43" RPTV and the picture quality is excellent-I only sit about 8 foot away and it compares with a normal CRT apart from viewing angles. After seeing some in the usual stores and I can't believe the difference.
Mind you if the source is crap (i.e vhs) then it really notices,has to be RGB or S-vid to get the best out of mine.
Also it's just over 2 years old and no sign of screen burn.
I saw a 42" plasma LG (I think) and Hitachi in Currys the other day and was very impressed.
RPTVs are poor in comparison.
I was also impressed at the price (under £2500). This is amazing as the last time I looked at these monsters they were a laughable £9000.
Well we'll give it another go and look in some more shops then... and this time I'll be asking what kind of connection is being used to the display source as well.
I'd love a big 42" screen but not at the expense of image quality.
Grandmaster
10-10-2003, 14:59
Take a look at the Pioneer 433 MXE or the new Panasonic Sixth Generation screen. Both have DVI input, and the picture this gives you is frankly astounding - a straight digital output direct from the DVD player to the screen.
A home cinema PC can also take the S-Video output of Sky+ (or component if you are especially hardcore) and deinterlace it and scale it to the exact resolution of the screen, again via DVI. This is the next step for me - to set up a PC connected full-time to the screen for DVD, TV, as an email message/net browsing centre, and for games too :D
You really do need to see a specialist to see anything like what plasma is really capable of, and limit yourself to the Hitachi, Pioneer and Panasonic screens.
lovegroova
10-10-2003, 16:33
I had my recently purchased Panny PWD6 professionally calibrated last night (by Gordon from Convergent-AV) and can say that from my non-progressive DVD player, the picture is simply stunning. Even from my NTL cable, the picture is good, although you can see which channels hare broadcast at a lower bitrate eg footy/rugby is good on BBC and not so good on ITV.
Sure, there are sometimes elements of banding, but this is a small problem, and when you set that off against perfect focus, convergence and geometry (something no CRT can deliver) you have a good package.
The addition of a scaler would, I suspect improve things even more.
What you have to remember is that a plasma display gives a different picture to a CRT, not necessarily a worse picture. Each method has its advantages and disadvantages.
Well we've definitely struck off RP TVs from the list now having looked at a load more today. The design of the cabinets (no room for Tivo/DVD/video/Sky box/etc.) and the limited viewing angles are just too restrictive.
Had a look at a few more plasmas and just disappointed with the pictures on all of them no matter the price or label.
However we were impressed with an LG 44" DLP TV - looks like yet another new technology but the picture just blew everything else we've seen away and is finally comparable to a big CRT. 2500 quid though... I shall have to see what price it can be found at on the net.
Strangely the review here (http://www.whatvideotv.com/cgi-bin/displayreview.php?reviewid=3014[/url) slates the picture quality yet we found none of the problems described in that review - no sparkling, no hot spot, no noise.
The sales bloke in the Currys that we saw it in (I know I know) seemed most put out to be asked to demo it with a DVD player attached... "Well it's an unusual request but as we are quiet..."
Nearly walked out on the spot, what a tool! Picture quality from a DVD source (Matrix Reloaded) was excellent, far better than the crappy piped demo disc they had going to every TV set in the place.
Anybody else got this set or tried it out?
Well doesnt that beat all... when they attached a DVD player to the DLP screen it was 'excellent'... did you get them to connect the dvd player to the plasmas and/or the RPT as well...?
And having dsimissed RPT and Plasma (2k-5k) you find a DLP TV that you like, even if What Video and Tv dont, for 2.5K and its too expensive... either you are in the market, or not..! :)
vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.