View Full Version : Subtitles or dubbing?
just4fun
14-01-2003, 11:36
Having just read the City of God thread (http://www.thedvdforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=153537) I was again reminded of how many people just don't like subtitles.
I visit Germany a lot and because most of their cinema content and a large proportion of their popular TV series originate in non-German speaking territories (mostly English) virtually all their cinema and much of their TV is dubbed.
Now, from one point I can understand this as it is a strategy that plays to the lowest common denominator (and hence pleases the largest number of people) but it is something I struggle with whenever I'm visiting.
I hate dubbing almost without exception. (I can just about tolerate it on the occasonal interview during a news broadcast.) For me, almost every nuance of an actors performance is lost when their voice is dubbed. I don't wish to denigrate the skills of the voice actors who perform the translation but I'm convinced they can't reach the same emotional point that created the original performance and when combined with the distraction of out-of-synch lip motion, the whole process leaves me irritated. To date, I find I can rarely watch more than about 30 seconds of a dubbed film/programme before being compelled to stop.
Do other people here hate dubbing this much? I love many foreign movies and have a particular fondness for a lot of French cinema. I don't find subtitles at all difficult to read but I will admit that I've effectively practiced the art through many films and I'm a quick reader anyway. Mostly I can take in the subtitle changes with a glance. I know some of my friends just can't read that way and I understand that.
Can you imagine what it would be like though if we just dubbed everything? I'd believe the Japanese and the Spanish (for sake of argument) just sounded like English or, more likely, American people as is the impression I get when I see news broadcasts in Germany. And Jackie Chan with a New Jersey accent is not cool. (And it's even worse in German too)
So, how much more twisted and pedantic am I than you? Go on, tell me you love dubbing and think subtitles are for bookish nerds. I won't be upset. Much. ;)
I think it just depends what you're used to. The (admittedly good) dubbing on Monkey doesn't bother me at all because it's how I originally saw the programme. English language shows and films in Germany and France are nearly always dubbed and if that's what you're used to then you wouldn't think twice about it. I suppose we in the UK are rather snobbish about dubbing, especially as it often isn't done very often or very well here - I still remember the horrors of Chateauvallon and Black Forest Clinic yet neither programme was crap, just laughably badly dubbed.
At least they stick to the same person dubbing an actor, and the dubbing artists themselves have their own fans. I have a friend who is a big fan of the French dubbing artist of Julia Roberts and she's never heard Julia Roberts' real voice!
I'm with you on this - subtitles are far less distracting than dubbing a film, and I usually find that if I'm immersed in a film then I forget I'm even watching subtitles. Dubbing is painful in comparison, you lose much of the performance of the original actors, the timing is often out, and I also find that many of the subtle audio effects get completely lost.
Last year I managed to convert a whole 3 people into watching subtitles as oppose to dubs. :clap:
Martin Veenman
14-01-2003, 12:10
Subtitles!
The actors' voices are an integral part of the original piece of art (with a capital A or not), and therefore should not be tempered with.
new forms
14-01-2003, 12:18
subtitles all the way............how can you judge emotion, performance or nuance without them
a few years ago managed to convert a friend to subtitles as he was quite a hk film fan and would go on about what a great actor chow Yun Fat was................ told him how could he bloody tell if all he watched was dubbed versions of his films, eventually he switched to subtitles and was tuely knocked out by the difference it provides
Subs. I cannot bring myself to watch a dubbed movie. Currently annoyed at myself for getting the R2 Brotherhood of the Wolf (misread the details on it :rolleyes: ) which means I only get the stereo track as the only 5.1 track is the dubbed one. Doh! I'm going to have to take it back and get the R1.
Johnny Vodka
14-01-2003, 12:42
Subtitles for me.
Only dubbed film I own is Shogun Assassin - though, it has to be said, the dubbing is good in that one.
Actually, that's a lie - I also have quite a few dubbed Italian horrors in my collection. The dubbing in those is always terrible!
Definitly subtitles, i hate dubs. I just came back from Germany and everything on tv, absolutly everything was dubbed. I asked somebody there why they can't read ;)
In smaller countries such as the Netherlands or Norway almost everything will have subtitles, with childrens programmes the only exception as far as i know, maybe thats why people there generally speak excellent english.
It feels a bit like watching a silent film, and some unmotivated amateurs in the background reading the text from a sheat of paper. Just bizarre to imagine that you would only know the face of an actor or an actress, but never their voices, and i totally agree with just4fun, stephen and Veenman, half the performance gets lost in the dubbing.
DeadKenny
14-01-2003, 13:05
Subs definitely, though perhaps Monkey is an exception, though I'd love to see them in original Japanese (with subtitles). Maybe old Bruce Lee films if you watch them drunk with your mates and laugh at the awful american dubbing :D (but normally I prefer the original tracks, although even those are actually dubbed).
Dear Mr Echo
14-01-2003, 14:28
Subs every time - nothing to add other than that. Only exception would be for animated films where I don't think it is as important, but I would usually go with original language. I would never buy a dubbed film.
Abhisara
14-01-2003, 14:33
Subtitles here too. The original dubs on my HKL discs are a vast improvement over my old English-dub tapes.
Dubbing doesn't look nearly as much out of place on animation as it does on live-action film, and so I'm always prepared to give dubbed anime a chance even though the Japanese track nearly always sounds better. I do like watching dubbed Cowboy Bebop and Ranma ½ though.
Sadly, a number of my friends weren't keen on watching Shaolin Soccer, Lagaan and a number of other foreign films because they were subbed. They don't realise what they're missing out on!
Subtitles for me every time. With dubbing so often you lose out on the emphasis on certain words and the emotion of the words themselves.
Niceguygeoff
14-01-2003, 14:52
It's subs all the way for me for live action movies, with a few exceptions. Sometimes I'll give a dub a go, like when 'Black Mask' was shown on tv recently. And that one is quite inoffensive, almost good actually - just make sure you avoid the R2 disc! The replaced hip-hop soundtrack is terrible, but the actors themselves actually put a bit into it, and don't sound like cheesy Americans, which is my pet peeve about dubbed movies. Listen to the dubbed track on 'Run Lola Run' and you'll see what I mean.
As for anime (and feel free to flame me here) it feels weird to watch that subbed. And a lot of the recent dubs I've heard (like Evangelion and Cowboy Bebop) are pretty good. The original English dub to Akira is terrible, though, and I'm glad the dvd has a choice between the new English mix and the original Japanese.
Originally posted by Niceguygeoff
As for anime (and feel free to flame me here) it feels weird to watch that subbed. And a lot of the recent dubs I've heard (like Evangelion and Cowboy Bebop) are pretty good. The original English dub to Akira is terrible, though, and I'm glad the dvd has a choice between the new English mix and the original Japanese. To some extend I don't think it matters how "good" the dub is, I believe in original language, whether its animated or not is irrelavent. Into specifics, the dub Spike in CB sounds like a smug git, and the super smooth low voice just doesn't fit the more off beat body language of the animation. Oh, and dubbed Ed is 10x more annoying then the Japanease original(and Ed was fairly annoying to start of with).
I always try to get original language.... I'm still trying to find the original version of "Fist of Legend" with Jet Li but all I have is the dubbed US version :(
just4fun
14-01-2003, 15:15
Originally posted by Dear Mr Echo
Subs every time - nothing to add other than that. Only exception would be for animated films where I don't think it is as important, but I would usually go with original language. I would never buy a dubbed film.
Yep - this is sort of true. I saw "A Close Shave" (Wallace and Gromit) on German TV recently and because it doesn't have such a strong effect on the lip-synch it isn't as disturbing to watch.
"Wensleydale Gromit, was ist los mit Wensleydale?" (or some such...)
I expect the more sophisticated animations (Chicken Run, Toy Story, Final Fantasy) will be less watchable though as animators tend to lip-synch their characters as well when there is a budget and time to support it.
Originally posted by just4fun
I don't find subtitles at all difficult to read but I will admit that I've effectively practiced the art through many films and I'm a quick reader anyway. Mostly I can take in the subtitle changes with a glance. I know some of my friends just can't read that way and I understand that.Watching a subtitled film as opposed to reading a subtitled film is definitely an art and a skill, but its a skill people will never pick up if they don't try.
Subs all the way for me, Im a quick reader and dont find them a problem ... Dubbing is usually terrible, especially some HK flicks were the characters end up sounding like something out of a cartoon, it destroys a movie.
DeadKenny
14-01-2003, 16:09
Originally posted by Mr Nice
Watching a subtitled film as opposed to reading a subtitled film is definitely an art and a skill, but its a skill people will never pick up if they don't try.
Yeah, I find I can read the titles quite quick and I'm watching with peripheral vision anyway, but as it only takes a second or two to read them I can flick back to the film. I also find the more subtitled stuff I watch the less I have to concentrate on the subtitles as I can skim-read because I get the "gist" of what's going on.
Blade Runner
14-01-2003, 16:10
Subtitles for me too. I find dubbing very distracting especially when it's badly done.
Subs, definitely. Glad there's so much support for them even in an English-language forum (the bigger the language, the more they go in for dubs, as a general rule).
I'm really only posting to tell about a peculiar phenomenon of dubbing: the narration-dub.
This is something you'll find in small countries (Norway and Sweden from my experience) as a low-budget dubbing solution, mostly for children's shows.
Rather than replacing the original dialogue with voice actors, a narrator will explain what they're saying. You can still hear the original voices underneath. It's similar to what you'll get on the news when showing clips in some foreign language.
The narrator will sometimes comment on the show, explain what's going on and so on. It's extremely weird, and doesn't even try to capture the feeling of the programme in its original language.
Originally posted by bronso
Subs, definitely. Glad there's so much support for them even in an English-language forum (the bigger the language, the more they go in for dubs, as a general rule).
I'm really only posting to tell about a peculiar phenomenon of dubbing: the narration-dub.
This is something you'll find in small countries (Norway and Sweden from my experience) as a low-budget dubbing solution, mostly for children's shows.
Rather than replacing the original dialogue with voice actors, a narrator will explain what they're saying. You can still hear the original voices underneath. It's similar to what you'll get on the news when showing clips in some foreign language.
The narrator will sometimes comment on the show, explain what's going on and so on. It's extremely weird, and doesn't even try to capture the feeling of the programme in its original language. Ah, the Polish dub of First Contact is like that(I got bored once and tried out all the language tracks Paramount like to throw on :D).
vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.