View Full Version : Babylon 5 S1 R2 - All Boxes faulty. Instructions on first post for getting fixed disc
I'm referring to the episode "And the Sky Full of Stars"
Are there any other things that people have found? I haven't watched all the episodes yet.
Any thoughts on what we can do?
1. Contact WB directly - en masse
2. Ask our etailers to contact WB for us - en masse
3. Asking a magazine to contact WB for us - en masse
4. Anything else?
I'd like to get this sorted out and the number of Forumites means that we might have a chance.
For more info see: http://home.iae.nl/users/starcat/b5atsfos/index.html
WB have agreed to reauthor the faulty disc. See below for instructions on getting a replacement copy
Instructions on getting replacement of disc 2 for English Boxset customers
The temporary address for the replacement is:
Steven Hill
Warner Home Video
Warner House
98 Theobald's Road
London
WC1X 8WB
Return ONLY Disc 2 (not the full box) together with full name and address. A covering letter explaining that you wish to replace the disc is a good idea.
An example for a covering letter:
N.B. Dots indicate that the text should be right justified
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
.........................................................................Your Name
.........................................................................Your Full Address
.........................................................................DATE
Steven Hill
Warner Home Video
Warner House
98 Theobald's Road
London
WC1X 8WB
Dear Mr. Hill
RE: Exchange of faulty Babylon 5 Series 1 Disc 2 for reauthored version
I enclose herewith my faulty disc 2 from the Babylon 5 Series 1 DVD Boxset as per the instructions of Ms. Kirsty Savides.
I have been informed that I will be sent in return a reauthored version of disc 2.
My name and address are as above.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely
Your Name
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Instructions on getting replacement of disc 2 for German Boxset customers
The temporary address for the replacement is:
Warner Bros. Home Video GmbH
Kundenservice
Jarrestr. 4
22303 Hamburg
Return ONLY Disc 2 (not the full box) together with full name and address. A covering letter explaining that you wish to replace the disc is a good idea.
An example for a covering letter (in German translation):
N.B. Dots indicate that the text should be right justified
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
.........................................................................Your Name
.........................................................................Your Full Address
.........................................................................DATE
Warner Bros. Home Video GmbH
Kundenservice
Jarrestr. 4
22303 Hamburg
Umtausch der DVD Nr. 2 aus der Babylon 5 - Staffel 1 - Box
Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren,
anbei erhalten Sie die fehlerhafte DVD Nr. 2 aus der B5 - Staffel 1 - Box mit der Bitte um Umtausch. Bitte senden sie die fehlerfreie DVD Nr. 2 an meine oben genannte Adresse.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Your Name
Anlage: 1 Original DVD Nr. 2 aus der B5 - Staffel 1 - Box
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whats the problem with it?
James
pompeyfan
27-11-2002, 17:37
Which disk is the problem on (and what is it)? I've just started watching disc 1, but can check (I have the German R2 btw)
From this thread (http://www.thedvdforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129490) :
Originally posted by TheoGB
Major weirdness:
Okay, has anyone else got a problem with the lack of anamorphic image in bits of episode 8: And the Sky Full of Stars?
In the opening section, at about 1:24 when we are in the guys' quarters we suddenly get a 4:3 image. Then the credits are definitely in 4:3!!
Then after the opening CG effect after the credits its all anamorphic again.
WHAT???
:eek: Originally posted by Mr Nice
Yep, your right, I had noticed the credits, but now that I check again I notice the people being "fat", and looking completely normal when I force it to display at 4:3 instead of 16:9. Weirder though, for the last camera change before the credits it goes back to 16:9 again for just those few seconds:nuts:, oh, and the establishing shot of B5 just after the credits is still 4:3 as well(its harder to notice due to lack of people being fat, but the shape of B5 looks much more normal at 4:3 then 16:9 for that shot). Originally posted by Morpheus2000
I checked out some of the episodes. There are some scratches alright, but the picture itself (while a bit soft) is clear. It's not all that bad.
There is something funny alright with "And the Sky Full of Stars" episode. The pre-credits sequence actually gets a lot wider and then changes back to 1.77:1 for the episode itself.
Something similar happens on "The Parliament of Dreams" episode. Strange alright, but I remember when Channel 4 showed the TV series the pre-credits was usually in widescreen while the episode was in 4:3. Originally posted by PaulS
More important than the price to me is the fact that as someone else mentioned they've cocked up in the mastering of one of the episodes.
And The Sky Full of Stars is damn annoying to watch as it constantly changes ratio on you pretty much all through the episode. It has been encoded with the anamorphic flag so it doesn't make your TV try and switch ratio, but it is plainly obvious from before even the credit sequence.
I can see now how they can sell the set so cheap.
I think Warner should fix that episode and re-issue the disc, the same as has been done for the mastering error on the 24 discs. Originally posted by Fred2002
I just watched my R2 copy and now that I am on the second disk, quickly nipped forward to check 'And The Sky Full Of Stars'.
Yeek! :eek: :eek: My eyes have gone funny......
Its not far out of kilter but just enough to make your eyes go funny.
Warner Bros must have mastered this one on a Friday afternoon..... :nono: Originally posted by Andy
Does anyone have any contact details for Warners in the UK?
Love this show, but that 'Sky full of Stars' ep was appalling!!
Contact/hassle Warners to replace this disc - it worked with Fox and 24 let's get it to work with them!!
I still haven't got round to checking mine yet.
Is this problem restricted to certain copies or are they all the same.
Chief Wiggum
27-11-2002, 19:07
I haven't been able to get hold of the B5 boxset on the high street, wonder if that's because it's been recalled? Of course it could just have sold out, but nowhere in Manchester or Stockport seems to have it. (i didn't want to get it from the net, I have my reasons :))
Originally posted by Bish
I still haven't got round to checking mine yet.
Is this problem restricted to certain copies or are they all the same.
Nobody has posted saying that their R2 doesn't suffer from this and plenty have posted saying that their's do, so I assume that it is a problem affecting all R2s.
Apparently someone from the R2Project ( [url]www.r2-dvd.org /url] ) contacted Warner Brothers re this. Sadly, Warner Brothers chose not to reply which suggests they are aware of the problem but are reluctant to do anything about it.
I have a copy of the R2 box set and the problem does exist.
A correspondence to Warner Brothers asking for their comments on the matter might help.
The Karate Kid
27-11-2002, 19:56
So am I to understand the best way to watch this ep is in 4:3 and suffer the FX shots being stretched?
Originally posted by hnimmo
Apparently someone from the R2Project ( [url]www.r2-dvd.org /url] ) contacted Warner Brothers re this. Sadly, Warner Brothers chose not to reply which suggests they are aware of the problem but are reluctant to do anything about it.
I have a copy of the R2 box set and the problem does exist.
A correspondence to Warner Brothers asking for their comments on the matter might help.
Even if they failed to get a response I think that if enough people complain to Warner Bros they might do something......
Hence I still think that we should try to find some contact details for Warner Bros, and then we can contact them (throw in the name of Watchdog) and make sure that loads of people email them.
Originally posted by 8-]
Even if they failed to get a response I think that if enough people complain to Warner Bros they might do something......
Hence I still think that we should try to find some contact details for Warner Bros, and then we can contact them (throw in the name of Watchdog) and make sure that loads of people email them.
I am with you all the way. I sent an e-mail to the boys at the R2 Project asking for an address for Warner Brothers but they did not reply. Not quite sure why, having raised the problem with Warner, they simply allowed it to drop when Warner failed to get back to them.
If we can find an address for Warner then a letter sent to them listing the people who are unhappy with the mastering of the disc in question should at least force them to respond.
Ravenger
27-11-2002, 21:35
Just watched that episode this evening.
As far as I can see ALL of the effects shots in the episode have been incorrectly scaled. That includes composite live action / effects shots.
Funnily enough, because they haven't been scaled as much they don't look as shimmery as the other episodes effects shots!
Warner Bros should re-issue the disc with a correct aspect ratio.
Walrus Man
27-11-2002, 22:14
I know the Region 2 boxset obviously needs correcting, but has anyone confirmed whether this problem exists on the Region 1 set?
Originally posted by Walrus Man
I know the Region 2 boxset obviously needs correcting, but has anyone confirmed whether this problem exists on the Region 1 set?
I've seen a few posts that say that it doesn't happen on R1
rumbletum
27-11-2002, 23:15
Almost finished watching S1 (just 3 eps left) and noticed a large number of the episodes on the DVD suffered from an "abysmal acting" problem :)
Still its a great series, and I look forward to seeing seasons 2-5 as I've only seen half a dozen or so episodes from these series
Originally posted by rumbletum
Still its a great series, and I look forward to seeing seasons 2-5 as I've only seen half a dozen or so episodes from these series You're in for a treat - they just keep getting better :)
rumbletum
27-11-2002, 23:40
Originally posted by 8-]
You're in for a treat - they just keep getting better :)
Excellent, and sorry to take this thread off topic, but what about a couple of other B5 TV movies I've seen knocking about - The Gathering/At The Beginning (think those were the titles). Are they worth checking out, and where do they fit in the B5 continuity or are they standalone titles?
The Gathering is the pilot episode and goes before ep1 of Series 1.
At the Beginning - is a prequel about the Earth/Minbari war but it is done from the perspective of the future (after series 4) and as such it has loads of spoilers and it would be best to not watch it until after you have seen at least series 1,2,3 and 4
rumbletum
27-11-2002, 23:58
Thanks :thumbs:
Warners must sort this out - I echo everyone's suggestions here of either contacting them via e-mail (if we can get hold of it) or at least by normal snail mail.
Perhaps the guys at DVDTimes may have more luck with Warners?
That was what i was thinking - if we can get hold of their address we can get users to contact them, etailers to contact them (by us asking our etailsers to do so) and by asking DVDTimes and other sits to contact them. A concerted attack so to speak.....
What I cannot understand is that when all this mess with 24 happened (I know I keep mentioning this) at least Fox admitted it straight away and started to do something.
The R2 B5 set has been out a while now and apart from a few of us keeping this in the spotlight nothing much seems to be happening. I mean it's not like it's a minor fault, it is a major fault and one that seriously reduces the enjoyment of that episode.
I just cannot understand Warners total apathy with this. I'm sure if the cock-up happened with something they consider more 'worthy' like Friends then this would have been sorted out ages ago.
Just my opinion of course!:)
Bought B5 series 1 because I got it cheap and because of it's reputation. Watched the first 3 episodes last night and found them extremely dull and ugly looking ( I don't mean the transfer, but the design and glaringly obvious budgetary limitations).
Can anyone tell me why I should keep watching ? This does get better, right ?
Check this thread:
http://www.thedvdforums.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=139219
Maybe we can get Dubya on the case!
Fred2002
29-11-2002, 01:07
Originally posted by 8-]
The Gathering is the pilot episode and goes before ep1 of Series 1.
At the Beginning - is a prequel about the Earth/Minbari war but it is done from the perspective of the future (after series 4) and as such it has loads of spoilers and it would be best to not watch it until after you have seen at least series 1,2,3 and 4
There are three more B5 films as well but only on VHS :( "River of Souls" (Our old friends the Soul Hunters pop up again) the excellent "Thirdspace" (I think set somewhere about series 4) and "Call to Arm's" Set after the end of Series 5 (Year 2262) which sets up the Drakh plague that was the basis for the sadly woeful (and quickly cancelled) Crusade series.
I quite liked Crusade..... it had potential
WeaselFierce
29-11-2002, 20:33
Originally posted by 8-]
I'm referring to the episode "And the Sky Full of Stars"
Are there any other things that people have found? I haven't watched all the episodes yet.
Any thoughts on what we can do?
1. Contact WB directly - en masse
2. Ask our etailers to contact WB for us - en masse
3. Asking a magazine to contact WB for us - en masse
4. Anything else?
I'd like to get this sorted out and the number of Forumites means that we might have a chance.
Agree with you totally. I tried contacting DVD.CO.UK where I bought it with the problem asking if they could:-
a) Contact WB to find out what they intended to do to correct the situation.
or
b) Provide me with a customer contact address for WB so I might request information from them directly.
This was over two weeks ago and still no reply.
Has anyone had any feedback whatsoever from ANYone on this?
I'll chase up my query at DVD.CO.UK and hopefully get a response back.
jaminblack
29-11-2002, 20:56
I wanted to get this for my dad as an gift for christmas, but he only has an r2 player and I dont want to get him a naffed up edition. Hope they sort this out soon.
One question - how does this happen ? Surely there is some guy who is paid to check the masters before they press thousands+ copies. They dont just do it blind do they. :(
Jamin
Reno, stick with the show. The first half of the season is mainly stand alone (and not to good at that), the second half of the season is much better and the season finale is truly stunning. Things like CGI etc.. get better as the show progresses, but B5 isn't about that, its about a story and a stunning one at that.
I also hope they put a bit more money and effort into the episode remastering for the remaining seasons, every so often some shots looked out of focus even though I have seen copies of the sci-fi transmitted w/s episodes and they didn't look like that! so obviously some kind of fault when compiling the DVD's. Bring on April 2003 and season 2!!!
Originally posted by jaminblack
I wanted to get this for my dad as an gift for christmas, but he only has an r2 player and I dont want to get him a naffed up edition. Hope they sort this out soon.
One question - how does this happen ? Surely there is some guy who is paid to check the masters before they press thousands+ copies. They dont just do it blind do they. :(
Jamin
You might as well get it for him as they won't sort it out before Xmas. Also if they sort it out then you can get the replacement disk then - and it only really affects 1 episode.
If he only has a R2 player then this is the only version to get. £33.99 from cd-wow
Originally posted by hnimmo
Apparently someone from the R2Project ( [url]www.r2-dvd.org /url] ) contacted Warner Brothers re this. Sadly, Warner Brothers chose not to reply which suggests they are aware of the problem but are reluctant to do anything about it.
I have a copy of the R2 box set and the problem does exist.
A correspondence to Warner Brothers asking for their comments on the matter might help.
Do you have a link to this on the R2 project? I had a search but couldn't find anything.
If more people ask them they might do some chasing up.
Originally posted by 8-]
Do you have a link to this on the R2 project? I had a search but couldn't find anything.
If more people ask them they might do some chasing up.
Try www.r2-dvd.org/article.jsp?sectionId=3&articleId=4919
Why they let the matter drop when Warner Brothers failed to reply is a mystery to me.
Hugh
Originally posted by hnimmo
Try www.r2-dvd.org/article.jsp?sectionId=3&articleId=4919
Why they let the matter drop when Warner Brothers failed to reply is a mystery to me.
Hugh
Thanks
I've just emailed the R2 project editor with:
Hi
You mentioned in http://www.r2-dvd.org/article.jsp?sectionId=3&articleId=4919 that you'd contacted WB but heard nothing.
Have you heard any more yet?
Also do you have an email contact for them. There are a lot of users on the DVD Forums who are unhappy about the disc and we would like to write to WB but can't find an email address for them
Any help would be appreciated,
Regards
8-]
Originally posted by 8-]
Thanks
I've just emailed the R2 project editor with:
Hi
You mentioned in http://www.r2-dvd.org/article.jsp?sectionId=3&articleId=4919 that you'd contacted WB but heard nothing.
Have you heard any more yet?
Also do you have an email contact for them. There are a lot of users on the DVD Forums who are unhappy about the disc and we would like to write to WB but can't find an email address for them
Any help would be appreciated,
Regards
8-]
I hope you have more luck than I did. I was very disappointed when they failed to reply to my e-mail. Since they claim to have been in touch with Warner they obviously have an address but chose not to supply same.
Hugh
I hope they respond as well. If they don't I'll email them again and again and a few times more...... I can be persistent
Originally posted by 8-]
I hope they respond as well. If they don't I'll email them again and again and a few times more...... I can be persistent
That's what I like to hear. There really is no excuse for Warner's failure to respond to the R2 Project. There is a problem and they should fix it. If they don't, I for one will never place another pre-order for a Warner Brothers product.
pompeyfan
29-11-2002, 23:54
Originally posted by 8-]
You might as well get it for him as they won't sort it out before Xmas. Also if they sort it out then you can get the replacement disk then - and it only really affects 1 episode.
If he only has a R2 player then this is the only version to get. £33.99 from cd-wow
Or around 20 quid from Amazon.de.
BTW checked mine today, and it has the same problem (R2 German release)
Originally posted by pompeyfan
Or around 20 quid from Amazon.de.
BTW checked mine today, and it has the same problem (R2 German release)
I would have been surprised if the German R2 was different.
This means that a lot of people are going to be affected. Hopefully we can do something about this :)
I got a reply from "The R2 project":
I didn't hear a peek form Warner sadly.
I can however tell you that season 2 is planned for for release in May.
Andy
I replied with:
Hi Andy
I've heard that the schedule for next year is:
May - Babylon 5 Series 2
September - Babylon 5 series 3
Also do you have an email contact for Warner Brothers? That way I could contact them directly as could other Forum members. If enough people ask them the same question they might do something.
Regards
8-]
Originally posted by 8-]
I got a reply from "The R2 project":
That's good news. Hopefully they will provide you with an address ( e-mail or otherwise. )
jaminblack
01-12-2002, 22:14
Originally posted by pompeyfan
Or around 20 quid from Amazon.de.
BTW checked mine today, and it has the same problem (R2 German release)
Are the menu's in German aswell as the packaging ? or can you choose the menu language?
any other info about the german release would be welcome. or is it identical to the uk one ?
Jamin
pompeyfan
01-12-2002, 22:24
Packaging etc is in German, but the menu's are in English (on disc 2 anyway as that's the one I'm watching atm;))
Free bump - let's hope we can get somewhere:)
Ravenger
03-12-2002, 09:49
Has anyone got a contact address or email for Warner Bros DVD?
Their site is out of date by about six months, and doesn't contain any general contact info. :nono:
Originally posted by Stephen Robertson
Has anyone got a contact address or email for Warner Bros DVD?
Their site is out of date by about six months, and doesn't contain any general contact info. :nono: That's what we're trying to find out. I've emailed a few people for the address details but with no luck so far :(
You think you lot have got problems....
Well Ive just received the R1 version from Amazon.ca for a friend (It's not my cup of tea), and he's just informed me that disc 2 (which is correctly labelled as disc 2) has been encoded with the contents of disc 4 !!
So 2 copies of disc 4, and no disc 2.
I'll re-post if Amazon state it's a problem, or a one-off.
He didnt mention any problem relating to aspect ratios.
Originally posted by 8-]
That's what we're trying to find out. I've emailed a few people for the address details but with no luck so far :(
Am I correct in assuming that the R2Project have not replied to your second e-mail ?
Originally posted by hnimmo
Am I correcting in assuming that the R2Project have not replied to your second e-mail ? Nope - nothing as yet :(
Originally posted by raptor
You think you lot have got problems....
Well Ive just received the R1 version from Amazon.ca for a friend (It's not my cup of tea), and he's just informed me that disc 2 (which is correctly labelled as disc 2) has been encoded with the contents of disc 4 !!
So 2 copies of disc 4, and no disc 2.
I'll re-post if Amazon state it's a problem, or a one-off.
He didnt mention any problem relating to aspect ratios.
I had exactly the same. Not checked my replacement yet... Supposed i'd better!!!
I don't think that there are the aspect ratio problems on the R1. I'm pretty sure that it has been confirmed that they are ok in that respect
Originally posted by 8-]
I don't think that there are the aspect ratio problems on the R1. I'm pretty sure that it has been confirmed that they are ok in that respect
How about creating a thread specifically asking for an address for Warner Brothers ?
Originally posted by hnimmo
How about creating a thread specifically asking for an address for Warner Brothers ? I did that on the General Forum this morning and I have found a phone number which I will be calling later to try to get an email id.
UPDATE
I've just called a WB number and was told that they don't have email ids so its good that we didn't waste too much time trying to find one.
I was put through to someone but they were away so I have left a voicemail and my phone number.
I will post more info when I get called back.
Why not just take the boxset back and tell them it is faulty. Then buy another copy, open it, take it back. Keep doing this so loads of sets get sent back to WB.
They might notice then?
Sb
Originally posted by ought
Why not just take the boxset back and tell them it is faulty. Then buy another copy, open it, take it back. Keep doing this so loads of sets get sent back to WB.
They might notice then?
Sb
I'd rather try to work it out with them. I mentioned in my voicemail that the problem didn't occur on the R1 and that there were a few of us.
Hopefully they will be helpful.... but if they aren't then I will probably throw in the Watchdog and Trading Standards names, and get as many people from the Forums to start ringing them with their complaints. :)
Originally posted by 8-]
I did that on the General Forum this morning and I have found a phone number which I will be calling later to try to get an email id.
Must have missed that one.
Free Bump:)
Any news from Warners yet, mate?
Nothing as yet. If they haven't contacted me by tomorrow I'll ring them again.
jaminblack
06-12-2002, 22:37
bump -
Any further news 8-] ?
Jamin
I forgot to ring them as I was quite busy. :(
I'll ring them again on Monday.
Oh look.......yet another boxset that has problems......must be nearly every single one now? Surely the companies that release these actually check with people who know anything about the subject/dvd first???
custard_chris
07-12-2002, 10:39
I notice that amazon.de are out of stock, and not expecting a new batch until January - maybe it'll be a fixed release?
Originally posted by custard_chris
I notice that amazon.de are out of stock, and not expecting a new batch until January - maybe it'll be a fixed release? I doubt it - much more likely that they just ran out of German boxsets
jaminblack
07-12-2002, 12:05
I tried to order one when they still stated they had stock - then all of a sudden I got an appolgy stating I'd have to wait till Jan.
I also had a look on amazon.fr - they get it in two boxsets (2x3disc) - and they're both 8 euros more expensive than the single boxsets from amazon.de!!
Jamin
They probably underestimated the demand for German boxsets.... esp with people from other countries ordering them :)
Hope you get somewhere 8-]. I can just about watch that ep, but it's really a disgrace that the problem wasn't spotted before printing.
Ravenger
09-12-2002, 09:38
I'm gradually getting through the box-set, watching an episode each evening, and last night I watched the episode 'Legacies' on disc 5.
I spotted (well, couldn't miss actually) a really bad flaw in the picture. Part of the way through the episode the bottom left corner of the screen gradually turned bright white, looking like a small white triangle growing from the corner of the screen, getting bigger. It then shrank again, but came back several times during the episiode.
The same thing happened on the other corners too, but not as bad. I was watching on my PC DVD drive, so these areas might be partly or wholly covered up by the TV overscan area, and might not be as noticable on a TV.
I can't believe that this boxset was released with this many obvious and irritating flaws in the picture.
Look at this review of the R1 box-set, and you'll see a possible explanation why some of the scenes are inexplicably blurry and grainy. Basically, they didn't have good enough film footage for some scenes so cropped and expanded them from tape.
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/sitereviews.cfm?ReleaseID=1412
Well today I rang WB again. The problem is that you have to go via a switchboard and they never tell you who they are transferring you to.
I left a message for a lady called Kate and then an hour later rang them up again and asked for someone else. This time I got through to someone called Lauren and I left a message for her as well.
Do any of the WB employees ever sit at their desks?
I did this between 2-3pm today and if I haven't heard back from them by tomorrow afternoon I will be ringing back, asking to speak to someone senior and repeating this until I get through to a person.
I think that Lauren was the person I left a message for last week but I can't be sure.
Originally posted by 8-]
Well today I rang WB again. The problem is that you have to go via a switchboard and they never tell you who they are transferring you to.
I find it hard to believe that Warner Home Video are unaware of the problem. I suspect they intend to take no action and hope that those of us who are currently complaining eventually give up and accept the faulty disc.
I purchased my copy from Amazon. Sent them an e-mail a few days ago explaining the situation and asked them to contact Warner Home Video to see if they were aware of the problem and, if so, what action they were planning to take to resolve it. Despite explaining it was probably a mastering problem with the disc and involved all Region 2 box sets, I received an e-mail from them this evening stating that they were very sorry to hear that I had received a faulty copy of the box set and informing me that they were sending out a replacement immediately.
Have e-mailed Amazon again to inform them that if they are not prepared to contact Warner Home Video to verify if (a) they are aware of the problem and (b) what action they plan to take to resolve it, then I would like a refund which would enable me to purchase the Region 1 or the forthcoming Region 4 (provided they do not have the same problem.)
Perhaps if the matter was raised with Trading Standards or some similar organisation they could elicit a reply from Warner Home Video re same.
If I get no help from WB I will drop the name of Trading Standards and Watchdog into the conversation to see if that brings about a change in their attitude. Currently I am just trying to find a person at WB to talk to directly.
Just finished watching the first season, what a great series it was!
Just a shame that dodgy disc has marred the fact that we have at last got the 1st series of B5 on DVD however lacklustre Warners attitude towards it was.
Lets keep our fingers crossed that this gets sorted, and also that they hurry up the release of series 2.
You could just imagine the uproar if Paramount kept Trekkies waiting 6 months before the next Star Trek release!
Trousers
10-12-2002, 12:26
Hunting around for series 2 info I found www.jmsnews.com which has all J. Michael Straczynski's comments on Usenet etc. which looks like it could be worth keeping an eye on for info on future releases and if anything can/will be done about "The Sky Full of Stars".
I've got 2 episodes to go BTW and I don't think I'll be able to withstand 5 months of constant "So what's happened to Delenn?" comments that I'll be subject to from the missus (she's never seen any of them before).
According to the latest release schedule for 2003:
Babylon 5 Series 2 - May
Babylon 5 Series 3 - September
Originally posted by Trousers
Hunting around for series 2 info I found www.jmsnews.com which has all J. Michael Straczynski's comments on Usenet etc. which looks like it could be worth keeping an eye on for info on future releases ...
Yeah, good site. Found this today, RE. future releases:
"Interviews for year 2's DVD have been set, or already conducted, with Stephen Furst, Andrea Thompson, John Iacovelli, Anne Bruice-Ailing, Jerry, Claudia, Bruce, me (JMS), John Copeland, Doug Netter and others.
"In addition, I'll be doing commentaries on "The Coming of Shadows" and "The Fall of Night," and there will be a bonus group commentary by Bruce, Claudia and Jerry on "The Long, Twilight Struggle."
There's talk about a special musical sequence for the season 3 DVD, with Chris re-scoring 2-3 episodes end to end with non-stop music, future segments on "The Future According to Babylon 5" with NASA and JPL guys (btw, James over at a certain House subcommittee, if you're reading this and could drop me a note,
that'd be great). I'd like to see the final bonus section on year 5 be about the fans of the show.
Point being...they're putting a LOT of energy and work into this to make each set better than the one before."
:clap: yay! :clap:
Originally posted by Mozley
Yeah, good site. Found this today, RE. future releases:
"Interviews for year 2's DVD have been set, or already conducted, with Stephen Furst, Andrea Thompson, John Iacovelli, Anne Bruice-Ailing, Jerry, Claudia, Bruce, me (JMS), John Copeland, Doug Netter and others.
"In addition, I'll be doing commentaries on "The Coming of Shadows" and "The Fall of Night," and there will be a bonus group commentary by Bruce, Claudia and Jerry on "The Long, Twilight Struggle."
There's talk about a special musical sequence for the season 3 DVD, with Chris re-scoring 2-3 episodes end to end with non-stop music, future segments on "The Future According to Babylon 5" with NASA and JPL guys (btw, James over at a certain House subcommittee, if you're reading this and could drop me a note,
that'd be great). I'd like to see the final bonus section on year 5 be about the fans of the show.
Point being...they're putting a LOT of energy and work into this to make each set better than the one before."
:clap: yay! :clap: That's great news!! :clap: :clap: Wonderful to see this series getting the respect and attention that it deserves.
Thornastor
10-12-2002, 14:53
Could it be that the price dropped for the set and that some discs were known not to be that great ?
Originally posted by Thornastor
Could it be that the price dropped for the set and that some discs were known not to be that great ? I doubt whether the price drop was due to them thinking that there were problems with any of the discs.
I'm sure all DVD companies would charge whatever they chose to charge irrespective of whether they believed that their product was exceptional or sub-standard.
UPDATE
I was just on the phone to someone at WB. They initially put me through to one of the people from my previous calls and I got the voicemail again. So I rang the switchboard again, and was transferred to someone else (same as the second person from yesterday) who also had voicemail. I tried again.....
..... on my 5th try I got through to a real person (I was sick of WB voicemail and their disregard of my requests for a return call) and she listened to what I said, came out with a few explanations (she wasn't technical) but had the decency to accept my reasoning for why her reasoning wasn't appropriate. She then put me on hold and went off to talk to someone else.
She returned and said that she was being sent something that had been sent to WB UK from the US to explain the problem that I had described. She is going to email me with the info and as soon as I get it I will post it on here.
She did say that the person she went to speak to (in the UK) knew about the problem - she didn't mention anything about any plans to rectify it.
At least we're getting somewhere....
Originally posted by 8-]
She returned and said that she was being sent something that had been sent to WB UK from the US to explain the problem that I had described. She is going to email me with the info and as soon as I get it I will post it on here.
I e-mailed Warner Home Video in the U.S.A. several days ago re the problem and complained about the apparent reluctance on the part of Warner Home Video U.K. to comment on the matter.
Originally posted by hnimmo
I e-mailed Warner Home Video in the U.S.A. several days ago re the problem and complained about the apparent reluctance on the part of Warner Home Video U.K. to comment on the matter. Nice one... hopefully we will get somewhere with a two pronged attack :thumbs:
Just got this from WB:
General Feedback
The PAL and NTSC masters were individually mastered, so there may be problems on one that do not appear on the other. However, video mastering stress that the NTSC and PAL are comparable in quality, and that "Babylon 5" is (especially in the 1st season) a low-budget sci-fi series. More importantly, the producer himself was involved in the mastering process.
Response to Problem on Disc 2:
Episode title "The Sky is Full of Stars" - The live-action part of the show was filmed so that it could later be formatted for 16x9. The FX shots were only done in 4x3 in the production for TV. When it was decided to release "Babylon 5: Season 1" in 16x9 for DVD, these FX shots had to be converted from NTSC to PAL and blown up from 4x3 to 16x9 (as the budget would be too great to re-do them completely). This "stretching" of the shots becomes most apparent on "The Sky is Full of Stars" episode, and the conversion process from NTSC to PAL may explain why this is apparent on the PAL disc but not the NTSC.
The only way to resolve this would be to remaster completely and which would be a prohibitively expensive process. This disc will not be re-issued.
Response to Problem on Disc 4:
Episode title 'Sins and Portents'. The spaceship shot is missing on the PAL master, and it does appear on the NTSC. But, the only way to tell it is missing is to compare it to a previous video release, which is why it was not caught on initial QC'
Video Operations have fixed this on the video master for any future releases.
I have just emailed the lady with this:
Dear XXX
Thank you for that information. I take it that there is no other information available for any problems on the R2 release?
Also could you please provide me with the email contact details of the individual ultimately responsible for the R2 release so that I can discuss some of the problems that I (and others) have about the quality of this release?
Regards
8-]
If this means no re-issue, I will be sending my set back and getting the USA one, may cost more but I'd like the correct version!
Once I get the contact details, I will email them and ask about the fact that there is no reissue despite knowledge of the problem.
If they prove unhelpful I will mention how many people are involved and how we will (en masse):
return our R2 versions and get the R1
Contact BBC Watchdog naming him/her
email him
email WB naming him/her
anything else I can think of.....
That should get a response......
8-]
I plan to return my copy of the box set to Amazon. Can you please forward a copy of the e-mail you received from Warner so that I can enclose it with same.
Hugh
Originally posted by hnimmo
8-]
I plan to return my copy of the box set to Amazon. Can you please forward a copy of the e-mail you received from Warner so that I can enclose it with same.
Hugh I've just forwarded the email to you.
It might be worth waiting until I get the info from the horse's mouth - the technical bod in charge of this. The lady who sent me the info is just someone in the middle and it's better to have the name of the responsible party before sending it to other companies.
Originally posted by 8-]
I've just forwarded the email to you.
It might be worth waiting until I get the info from the horse's mouth - the technical bod in charge of this. The lady who sent me the info is just someone in the middle and it's better to have the name of the responsible party before sending it to other companies.
8-]
E-mail received. Many thanks. Will hold off until you hear from Warner's technical bod.
Hugh
Originally posted by hnimmo
8-]
E-mail received. Many thanks. Will hold off until you hear from Warner's technical bod.
Hugh :thumbs:
Sorry to hear whats been happening to you guys with regard to the R2 of Babylon 5.
I was about to order it, but am now unsure.
Do you suggest I order R1 or hold off to see if they are going to fix the R2 version.
Warner Bros aren't doing themselves any favours with the shoddy treatment of people with a boxset that they KNOW has problems.
Originally posted by GarFra
Sorry to hear whats been happening to you guys with regard to the R2 of Babylon 5.
I was about to order it, but am now unsure.
Do you suggest I order R1 or hold off to see if they are going to fix the R2 version.
Warner Bros aren't doing themselves any favours with the shoddy treatment of people with a boxset that they KNOW has problems. Wait for a little while and see what happens on the R2.
pompeyfan
10-12-2002, 23:39
Cheers 8-], it'll be interesting to hear what the technical guy says about it.
You can count me in for complaints etc although I don't know whether I'll send mine back as I paid less than 20 quid for it, and it'll cost sending it to Germany + the R1 release is nearly twice as much as I paid anyway, so for me probably not worth the extra expense (if I'd have paid the UK price for it, then it would have gone back).
Originally posted by pompeyfan
Cheers 8-], it'll be interesting to hear what the technical guy says about it.
You can count me in for complaints etc although I don't know whether I'll send mine back as I paid less than 20 quid for it, and it'll cost sending it to Germany + the R1 release is nearly twice as much as I paid anyway, so for me probably not worth the extra expense (if I'd have paid the UK price for it, then it would have gone back). If you did send it back amazon.de would refund your postage costs.
pompeyfan
10-12-2002, 23:58
Originally posted by 8-]
If you did send it back amazon.de would refund your postage costs.
True they might, but I just had a look on DVDsoon and it'd cost me over 40 quid including delivery for the R1 version, which would be twice as much as I've paid so I don't think if it is worth it for me - like I said if I'd have paid £34+ then yes, back it would go;).
Originally posted by pompeyfan
True they might, but I just had a look on DVDsoon and it'd cost me over 40 quid including delivery for the R1 version, which would be twice as much as I've paid so I don't think if it is worth it for me - like I said if I'd have paid £34+ then yes, back it would go;). I know what you mean. :)
I'm probably anal enough to get the R1 though.
The problem is that I will then be locked into getting the R1 for the next 4 releases as well. :(
I really hope that this R2 problem gets resolved so that I don't have to make these decisions......
Count me in if you need someone else to complain!
Lets see what happens, of it's R1 here I come!
Ron Hill
11-12-2002, 11:18
I got the region 1 from DVDBoxOffice. Yes it was more expensive BUT I don't get the stress of knowing my favourite TV show has an episode with the RandomAspectSelector(TM) feature. :)
(From the WB reply: ) "..."<b>The Sky is Full of Stars</b>" (sic- :lol: ) - The live-action part of the show was filmed so that it could later be formatted for 16x9. The FX shots were only done in 4x3 in the production for TV. ...these FX shots had to be converted from NTSC to PAL and blown up from 4x3 to 16x9."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this BS? I'm sure there are live action shots which are clearly 4:3 blown up/stretched to fit 16:9....
"...Episode title '<b>Sins and Portents</b>'...." :lol: Makes me think that they don't have a clue what they're on about if they can't even get both episode titles right, including the episode title that the first series is named after which is displayed prominently on the front of the boxset....:rolleyes:
Just thought I'd chuck in my support :)
I'll keep an eye on this thread, and help where I can :)
Ravenger
11-12-2002, 12:25
Originally posted by Mozley
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this BS? I'm sure there are live action shots which are clearly 4:3 blown up/stretched to fit 16:9....
You're right - The fact is that ALL the episodes had widescreen live action and 4:3 CGI / composite shots. So all the CGI / Composite footage has been cropped and upscaled to an anamorphic 16:9 aspect ratio
it looks like for this particular episode someone simply entered the wrong parameter into whatever software they used to crop and upscale the effects shots, and it was missed in their QC procedure.
Ravenger
11-12-2002, 20:48
Found this page on the Babylon5 newsgroup - a technical explanation of how B5 was probably transferred to DVD, and how they could have done it better.
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~leopold/Babylon5/DVD/DVDTransfer.html
May I suggest e-mailing the bloke on BBC's DVD teletext pages about this (p579) , and explain it to him - maybe he can shame Warners into doing something?
His e-mail is (I think) william.gallagher@bbc.co.uk. That may be wrong, but I'm sure someone else will know it.
I will hold off on contacting anyone else until I've got in touch with someone senior at WB. I'll add william.gallagher@bbc.co.uk to the list of people to contact if they screw me around though :)
I just sent this today:
Dear Ms X
As per my email of 10/12/2002 please could you provide me with email contact details of the individual ultimately responsible for the R2 Babylon 5 Series 1 DVD release so that I can discuss some of the problems that I (and others) have about the quality of this product?
I have read the information that you provided to me on 10/12/2002 but after discussion with a large number of others (there are over 100 of us at last reckoning) we are not really satisfied by the explanation given regarding the apparent reasons for the problems with this release, let alone the plans to rectify the problems.
Other manufacturers have not treated their customers in this manner after releasing DVDs (either single releases or boxsets) which have had problems, and as such we would like to take this further.
Therefore please forward me the email contact details as requested above and in my earlier email.
Regards
8-]
Just got this back from WB:
Dear 8-],
Thank you very much for your recent correspondence regarding Babylon 5, which was passed onto me by Ms X. By way of introduction, I am the Product Manager responsible for all Babylon 5 releases.
We are aware of the current issues regarding Babylon 5 Series 1 and are currently in correspondence with our Burbank colleagues to obtain clarification, as the Series was authored in the US under the supervision of the Producer.
Please be assured that I will get back to you, once I have a clearer picture of our position on this matter.
Yours Sincerely,
Ms Y
Ron Hill
12-12-2002, 17:12
8-] Way to go fella. You got light out of the WB black hole. :)
Good one mate - lets hope they do something about it!:)
tk421138
12-12-2002, 18:59
Great news
I hope if they do set up an exchange I will be able to swap my german disk from amazon.de
:thumbs: Power to the people. Let us know if youneed any help, though you seem to have it well in hand 8-] :thumbs:
jaminblack
12-12-2002, 20:46
woo hoo
a sniff of good news at last
Jamin
Originally posted by Kal El
:clap: 8-] is GOD:clap: :confused: I always thought God was a Vorlon?
Nice work on this 8-]
We all appreciate it v much :notworthy :notworthy
Wanna buy wanna buy........... WHEN!!!
Originally posted by 8-]
Dear Ms X
She sounds kinky. :norty:
WeaselFierce
13-12-2002, 21:33
Got a decent reply from my e-tailer this week:-
Dear Mr Fenwick,
I have just viewed Disc 2 Episode "And The Sky Full of Stars" from a set taken from our very latest batch. Looking at the CGI scenes our widescreen TV, I cannot see any compression. On websites mentioning the problem, it is stated that the end of the ships look oval as opposed to circular, but they are definitely circular as far as I can tell. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not calling you a liar, I think it's probably that the problem has been fixed in this latest batch. Reports on the web say that Amazon was stating that the problem should be rectified in batches issued after the end of November, which is well before we received our latest batch.
So, you might like to try a replacement disc 2 after all. However, if you would like to seek confirmation from Warner themselves, you can contact them on:
WARNER BROTHERS
98 Theobalds Road, Holborn, London Wc1X 8WB
tel: 020 7984 5000 fax: 020 7984 5601
Hope this helps.
Kind regards,
Hope they're right and it is fixed.
Originally posted by WeaselFierce
Got a decent reply from my e-tailer this week:-
Dear Mr Fenwick,
I have just viewed Disc 2 Episode "And The Sky Full of Stars" from a set taken from our very latest batch. Looking at the CGI scenes our widescreen TV, I cannot see any compression. On websites mentioning the problem, it is stated that the end of the ships look oval as opposed to circular, but they are definitely circular as far as I can tell. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not calling you a liar, I think it's probably that the problem has been fixed in this latest batch. Reports on the web say that Amazon was stating that the problem should be rectified in batches issued after the end of November, which is well before we received our latest batch.
So, you might like to try a replacement disc 2 after all. However, if you would like to seek confirmation from Warner themselves, you can contact them on:
WARNER BROTHERS
98 Theobalds Road, Holborn, London Wc1X 8WB
tel: 020 7984 5000 fax: 020 7984 5601
Hope this helps.
Kind regards,
Hope they're right and it is fixed. This can't be true as if it was then WB would have mentioned this immediately, rather than admitting that there was a problem but that they didn't have any plans to resolve it. He is probably referring to the bit with the missing ship that WB referred to about being fixed in the master.
All I can think is that the person who emailed you got confused (or just resent something he was sent).
I hope that I am wrong and that this has been fixed, but I doubt it.
I was planning on getting the season 1 for my wife for her Christmas.
The way things currently stand would I be better off going for the R1 version of season 1 and R2 for later seasons.
Is there much of a difference in the packaging of the different regions?
I've just had a look on the web and it looks like the R1 and R2 have exactly the same type of packaging
I think I'll hold off till I see what happens to see if you the problem you are having is resolved.
She would prefer to have them all the same region (preferable R2, to play on her parents machine), so guess she'll be getting them for her birthday at this rate! :)
Damn .... gotta think of a new Christmas pressie now! :p
You could get the the pilot episode on DVD
free bump - any latest news?
Nothing as yet.
How long do you guys think that we should leave it before chasing it up?
I mean it is almost Xmas time so a lot of companies are slowing down.
The last contact I had with the Manager at WB was last Thursday (12th November) - as mentioned on this thread.
I think we should give her at least a week - which would be 19th December...... not sure how much we can expect this close to Xmas.
Thoughts/ideas would be welcome :)
Originally posted by 8-]
How long do you guys think that we should leave it before chasing it up?
I would be inclined to wait until early January, 2003.
Hugh
Originally posted by hnimmo
I would be inclined to wait until early January, 2003.
Hugh That was my thinking as well.
I think the R1 packaging is shiney and the R2 matt, or the other way round - is the only difference other than the BBFC age certificate thingy as far as I know.
custard_chris
18-12-2002, 19:02
I just had this email from amazon.de (via babelfish) which seems to indicate the fixed version will be out in January:-
we greet you and would like to a change to your order to refer, which contains the following article: ^AESpacecenter Babylon 5 - relay 1 - box set (6 DVDs)^Ó http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00006JMPD/ From the manufacturer the report just reached us that the title specified above unfortunately will not come this year no more on the market. Complete production exhibits lack, which the manufacturer cannot repair at present. The prospective erscheinungstermin of the error free version will probably be on 9 January 2003. Therefore we still ask you for something patience. We keep their order further upright. You if the waiting period should become too long, you can cancel the article at any time on-line over "my account" (http://www.amazon.de/mein account). Please you excuse many times the production error and the lieferverzoegerung resulted from it! With questions our kundenservice is to you at any time gladly at the disposal! Friendly greetings
I love automated translation programs.:lol:
This may be the fix for the missing spaceship on the other episode.
I'm thinking that based on the reply I received a while back (I posted it on p2 of this thread):
Response to Problem on Disc 4:
Episode title 'Sins and Portents'. The spaceship shot is missing on the PAL master, and it does appear on the NTSC. But, the only way to tell it is missing is to compare it to a previous video release, which is why it was not caught on initial QC'
Video Operations have fixed this on the video master for any future releases.
I hope that I am wrong and that they have fixed everything, but I would have expected an immediate reply from the R2 Manager if they had already fixed the disc2 problem.
custard_chris
20-12-2002, 12:25
I've had more from Amazon.de...
Loves Amazon.de customer, dear Amazon.de customer, we greet you and would like to a change to your order to refer, which contains the following article: Babylon 5 - relay 1 - box set (6 DVDs)? http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00006JMPD/ From the manufacturer the report just reached us that the title specified above unfortunately will not come this year no more on the market. Complete production exhibits lack, which the manufacturer cannot repair at present. The prospective erscheinungstermin of the title becomes probably to 9. January 2003 its. Therefore we still ask you for something patience. We keep their order further upright. Please you note that as previously mentioned the problem on the part of the manufacturer Warner Home is repaired, and according to current message by Warner Home also to be repaired cannot. The DVD knows the following error up: On the DVD 6 the picture of Widescreen on the format 4:3 jumps in an animated sequence. You if the waiting period should too long will or if you should have no more interest at the article, you can cancel it at any time on-line over "my account" (http://www.amazon.de/mein account). Please you excuse many times the production error and the lieferverzoegerung resulted from it! With questions our kundenservice is to you at any time gladly at the disposal! Friendly greetings
Which would seem to be the Sky Full of Stars problem, even if that isn't on Disk 6....
I just phoned Warner myself about this and a problem I have with Friends (happy to help with B5 unable to help with Friends :oh-hum: )
The lady took my name, address, phone number ect and promised to get back to me with an answer, but since they need to talk to the US and the series creator first it could be as much as 6 weeks before I here back due to holidays but they were well aware of the problem and it seemes to be they just need advice on how to fix it properly :)
Originally posted by SAS
I just phoned Warner myself about this and a problem I have with Friends (happy to help with B5 unable to help with Friends :oh-hum: )
The lady took my name, address, phone number ect and promised to get back to me with an answer, but since they need to talk to the US and the series creator first it could be as much as 6 weeks before I here back due to holidays but they were well aware of the problem and it seemes to be they just need advice on how to fix it properly :) Was the lady you spoke to called any of these:
Kate
Lauren
Jane Fowler
Kirsty Savides
??
I think she said Linda, but maybe it was Lauren.
Originally posted by SAS
I think she said Linda, but maybe it was Lauren. You probably spoke to someone different to the 4 people I spoke to.... they seem to have droves of them there!
Originally posted by 8-]
You probably spoke to someone different to the 4 people I spoke to.... they seem to have droves of them there!
Perhaps they should move some of them into the Quality Control Department. :)
Originally posted by hnimmo
Perhaps they should move some of them into the Quality Control Department. :) They probably don't have a Quality Control dept :lol: :(
Originally posted by hnimmo
I purchased my copy from Amazon. Sent them an e-mail a few days ago explaining the situation and asked them to contact Warner Home Video to see if they were aware of the problem and, if so, what action they were planning to take to resolve it.
I have just received a reply from AmazonUK re the above enquiry.They claim to have contacted the studio ( Warner Home Video ? ) and to have been advised that " the Babylon 5 Series 1 d.v.d. is meant to be like this and we are unable to rectify this." They have, however, offered me a full refund which I will accept unless Warner Home Video agree to rectify the problem.
If Warners don't fix this - will other online retailers (I got mine from DVD.co.uk) agree to a full refund. I guess they should as the product is clearly fawlty.
Walrus Man
06-01-2003, 14:28
Originally posted by Andy
... the product is clearly fawlty. what has this got to do with Mr Fawlty
Seriously, this really needs to be sorted out, I'm still holding off buying a copy until it's fixed.
"Don't mention the (Earth-Minbari) War!"
Nothing as yet. I was planning on emailing her near the end of the week
custard_chris
08-01-2003, 11:13
Well, I've just had the shipping notice from amazon.de, who said they were shipping once the fixed version of the set was in. I shall let you know if it fixed when I get it...
Originally posted by custard_chris
Well, I've just had the shipping notice from amazon.de, who said they were shipping once the fixed version of the set was in. I shall let you know if it fixed when I get it... Cheers :thumbs:
zantarous
08-01-2003, 22:06
8-] if you don't have success by the end of the week with WB I think its time to do one of two things:
1) Return our sets and get region 1 (unlikly for me I bought mine on release day from Amazon)
2) All of us will need to start calling WB. I have worked in call centres before and no that a company in more likely to respond to lots of calls rather then one.
No offence 8-] but if you are the only one harrasing them they probably think you are just a nutter and hope you go away soon and probably have a little laugh at your expense after you hang up.
mikezero
08-01-2003, 22:13
Look on the bright side, we only have one episode that is incorrectly mastered, the R1 box set has 2 - Voices of Authority Parts 1 & 2.
Originally posted by zantarous
8-] if you don't have success by the end of the week with WB I think its time to do one of two things:
1) Return our sets and get region 1 (unlikly for me I bought mine on release day from Amazon)
2) All of us will need to start calling WB. I have worked in call centres before and no that a company in more likely to respond to lots of calls rather then one.
No offence 8-] but if you are the only one harrasing them they probably think you are just a nutter and hope you go away soon and probably have a little laugh at your expense after you hang up. A couple of points:
1. Even if you bought from amazon on release, they will refund your money as the item is defective. hnimmo said as much a few posts above this.
2. WB know that there are quite a few people behind me (I have made them aware of this) so although they might think that there are a largish group of nutters, they do not think that I am just a single voice in the wilderness (sorry couldn't resist the B5 related phrase :) )
zantarous
08-01-2003, 22:25
Okay will let you continue to fight the good fight.
WB know that there are quite a few people behind me
Shall we start to refer to you as Ranger One?:smokin:
Originally posted by mikezero
Look on the bright side, we only have one episode that is incorrectly mastered, the R1 box set has 2 - Voices of Authority Parts 1 & 2. Do you mean "A voice in the Wilderness" parts 1&2? I didn't realise that the R1 had problems. Do you have any links with more info?
Originally posted by zantarous
Shall we start to refer to you as Ranger One?:smokin: :lol:
zantarous
08-01-2003, 22:39
Look on the bright side, we only have one episode that is incorrectly mastered, the R1 box set has 2 - Voices of Authority Parts 1 & 2.
I am a huge B5 fan a frequent a lot of B5 boards and news groups and can honestly say that there are no problems with the R1 set. Infact their print seems to be a bit better then ours from what I have heard and they have a trailer for each episode and a trailer for the season. R1 is looking a lot more attractive by the minute.
mikezero
08-01-2003, 23:20
Sorry, my mistake, a Voice in the Wilderness.
Anyway, here's the link of a review of the R1 B5 DVD Box Set from the tvshowsondvd website.
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/sitereviews.cfm?ReleaseID=1412
zantarous
08-01-2003, 23:49
oooppps my mistake. I had come across this befor just completly forgot about it. So your damned no matter what version you get by the looks of things.
Originally posted by mikezero
Sorry, my mistake, a Voice in the Wilderness.
Anyway, here's the link of a review of the R1 B5 DVD Box Set from the tvshowsondvd website.
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/sitereviews.cfm?ReleaseID=1412 Thanks for the info.
So it looks like both R1 and R2 are flawed, but in different areas :confused: :(
Bump!
I've finally got to The Sky is Full of Stars and now understand what you guys have been complaining about. It's one of the best episodes in season 1 as well - very annoying indeed.
Do we have any more news or is it time for us all to start hassling WB?
Sorry - I've been busy moving house and haven't been able to email WB. Will try again now.
custard_chris
14-01-2003, 20:24
I'm still waiting for my allegedelly fixed copy to turn up from amazon.de. I shall post when it navigates it's way through the postal system.
I emailed the manager last night but got no reply today. I'll give her until mid-next week to reply and then send another.
jaminblack
15-01-2003, 18:17
i'm just checking my copy of Season 1 which showed up from amazon.de today can someone supply me with a time index (in the sky is full of stars ep) to check to see if the errors have been fixed or not cheers.
Jamin
Just got this reply from the manager:
Dear Mr 8-],
Thank you for your follow-up e-mail regarding the Babylon 5 Season 1 box-set.
I have now obtained clarification on the situation from my US colleagues.
The picture distortion in Season 1 is the result of all effects shots (CGI - Computer Generated Imagery) being originally shot in 4x3 aspect ration for television (shots without CGI were filmed in 16x9). The 4x3 shots had to be stretched to 16x9 for the DVD release, and in the episode "And the Sky Full of Stars" this is more noticeable than in other episodes.
The Series' Executive Producer, Doug Netter, supervised the transfer for DVD and was involved in the process described above.
Regarding the missing spaceships, this appears to be a genuine omission that slipped past the Executive Producer. We apologise unreservedly for this, which is also the case in the U.S. Given that the omission does not effect the comprehension of the story, and is very brief, there are no plans to address this issue in the short term.
I trust this answers your queries.
Yours sincerely,
Kirsty Savides
:brickwall :mad: :rolleyes:
Back to square 1...... so now I have to explain again that this doesn't happen on the R1! :gag:
jaminblack
15-01-2003, 18:38
just did some quick browsing through the episode (on my new copy from amazon.de) - its not a fixed version. which I kinda expected. still a disappointment. :(
Jamin
Originally posted by jaminblack
just did some quick browsing through the episode (on my new copy from amazon.de) - its not a fixed version. which I kinda expected. still a disappointment. :(
Jamin So - they replaced your copy with an identical faulty one?
What did they claim to have fixed>?
Walrus Man
15-01-2003, 19:33
Originally posted by 8-]
Back to square 1...... so now I have to explain again that this doesn't happen on the R1! :gag: I can't believe the reply you got, can people really be this stupid?
Do NOT give up on this one, give them more technical details, and don't let them fob you off.
Oh dear, what a bunch of idiots. Have you tried sending them this link (http://lightning.snow-leopard.org.uk/Ugh.jpg) to help explain the problem.
jaminblack
15-01-2003, 19:43
Originally posted by 8-]
So - they replaced your copy with an identical faulty one?
What did they claim to have fixed>?
No this is my first copy, bought cheaply from amazon.de (b4 xmas) they were waiting on new stock (same boat as custard_chris). but i've just looked at their website for the item it has a new disclaimer:
<B>Aufgrund eines Masterproblems seitens des Herstellers Warner Home Video wird diese Version mit einem technischen Fehler auf der 6. DVD ausgeliefert. Laut Hersteller springt das Bildformat auf dieser DVD teilweise zwischen Widescreen und Vollbild hin und her. Dieser Fehler kann zurzeit vom Hersteller nicht behoben werden. </B>
Translated by babelfish:
Due to a master problem on the part of the manufacturer Warner Home video becomes this version with a technical error on the 6. DVD delivered. According to manufacturer the display format jumps on these DVD partly between Widescreen and frame back and forth. This error cannot be repaired to time by the manufacturer.
Jamin
custard_chris
15-01-2003, 19:54
This is very irritating. I've been waiting a very long time for a copy of this (I ordered from amazon.de when it originally turned up on the bargain forum in August (ish) and the first copy got lost in the post) and was at least hoping that I'd get a fixed copy at the end of all this.
I'm still waiting for mine to turn up, btw.
Jamin - are the disks themselves German-specific, or have WB used the same copies in all the European countries. I want to know if I'd be able to return the disk to Warners in this country if they ever work out there's a problem.
jaminblack
15-01-2003, 20:10
All the packaging is german specific, e.g the box cover, booklett is all in german and so is the print on the discs themselves german e.g
Staffel 1, spacecenter Babylon 5 ... etc.
(there is copyright info in english around the edge)
but the contents is all the same I believe as over here, including the errors. not sure what the situation would be if a recall / replacement scheme did come to pass.
Jamin
Originally posted by Walrus Man
I can't believe the reply you got, can people really be this stupid?
Do NOT give up on this one, give them more technical details, and don't let them fob you off. I'll keep trying.
Originally posted by phlebas
Oh dear, what a bunch of idiots. Have you tried sending them this link (http://lightning.snow-leopard.org.uk/Ugh.jpg) to help explain the problem. Thanks for that. I'll use it in the email I send her.
custard_chris
15-01-2003, 21:28
Thanks for the info Jamin.
I suspect any replacements would have to go to Germany, then. But I don't think Warners are going to recall anyway - they must know by now what the problem is, but aren't going to admit it.
If Warners won't fix this, I'm going to mail the place where I got it from and ask for a refund and then get the R1 set.
Cannot be bothered to wait for Warner to get their act together.
Maybe if all of us who have got a set send theirs back they'll get the message!
Originally posted by Andy
If Warners won't fix this, I'm going to mail the place where I got it from and ask for a refund and then get the R1 set.
Cannot be bothered to wait for Warner to get their act together.
Maybe if all of us who have got a set send theirs back they'll get the message! The R1 is also flawed. See the previous page of this thread for info.
If that's referring to very noticeable jumps in picture quality between scenes, like you can tell the film is really grainy, then it's ok, then it's grainy. I can spot that on my R2 set.
Originally posted by Andy
If that's referring to very noticeable jumps in picture quality between scenes, like you can tell the film is really grainy, then it's ok, then it's grainy. I can spot that on my R2 set. Have a look at the link on the previous page. It has screenshots etc.
EDIT - Here's the link: http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/sitereviews.cfm?ReleaseID=1412
Originally posted by 8-]
Just got this reply from the manager:
Dear Mr 8-],
Thank you for your follow-up e-mail regarding the Babylon 5 Season 1 box-set.
I have now obtained clarification on the situation from my US colleagues.
The picture distortion in Season 1 is the result of all effects shots (CGI - Computer Generated Imagery) being originally shot in 4x3 aspect ration for television (shots without CGI were filmed in 16x9). The 4x3 shots had to be stretched to 16x9 for the DVD release, and in the episode "And the Sky Full of Stars" this is more noticeable than in other episodes.
The Series' Executive Producer, Doug Netter, supervised the transfer for DVD and was involved in the process described above.
Regarding the missing spaceships, this appears to be a genuine omission that slipped past the Executive Producer. We apologise unreservedly for this, which is also the case in the U.S. Given that the omission does not effect the comprehension of the story, and is very brief, there are no plans to address this issue in the short term.
I trust this answers your queries.
Yours sincerely,
Kirsty Savides
Returning my copy of Series 1 to Amazon.co.uk. for a refund.
Needless to say I will not be purchasing Series 2, 3, 4 or 5.
Hugh
Hugh
Will you be getting the R1?
Originally posted by 8-]
Hugh
Will you be getting the R1?
8-]
No.
As far as I am concerned, Warner have put little or no effort into the release of Series 1. In addition to the aspect ratio problem and the genuine omission which slipped past the Executive Producer, it is also obvious that no attempt was made to clean up the print used.
Even ' I Claudius ' which was released recently had restoration work carried out on it.
I am less than impressed with Warners efforts in respect of Babylon 5 Series 1 and have no wish to reward them for putting out such a shoddy package.
Hugh
Originally posted by hnimmo
8-]
No.
As far as I am concerned, Warner have put little or no effort into the release of Series 1. In addition to the aspect ratio problem and the genuine omission which slipped past the Executive Producer, it is also obvious that no attempt was made to clean up the print used.
Even ' I Claudius ' which was released recently had restoration work carried out on it.
I am less than impressed with Warners efforts in respect of Babylon 5 Series 1 and have no wish to reward them for putting out such a shoddy package.
Hugh I'm torn.
I love the series - prob my favourite Sci-fi series ever.
However both the R1 and R2 have flaws. :(
Originally posted by 8-]
I'm torn.
I love the series - prob my favourite Sci-fi series ever.
However both the R1 and R2 have flaws. :(
Same here. Probably one of my favourite t.v. shows of all time.That said, I am not prepared to support a company who put out a sub standard package. Defeats the whole purpose of d.v.d. I am not looking for miracles from a low budget sci-fi show. I could have lived with the fact of the missing spaceships ( although it should never have been allowed to happen ) but the aspect ratio problem and the fact that no effort was made to clean up the print is, in my opinion, inexcusable. If you have a dirty/marked print, d.v.d. simply highlights the problems. After watching an episode for a few minutes, I found myself waiting for the next set of marks/blemishes to appear on screen rather than enjoying the program.
I was planning to buy this for my wife (originally as a Christmas present), however I have held off waiting to see what would happen with regard to the problems with the R2 disc's.
If nothing was going to be done I was going to get her the R1 versions, however on hearing that there are also flaws with the R1 version, I am no longer now getting her that.
Basically if Warner Bros. who know that there are faults with both the R1 and the R2 versions are unwilling to admit to and fix these faults then I am unwilling to invest my money in purchasing all the season of this great show.
It is a pity as for me it is one of the best sci-fi series of recent times and Warner Bros, by their own short shortsightedness are going to cost themselves money in the long term.
Myself and others I suspect will not purchase (or will return) this season and probably any further releases until Warner Bros. fix the faults in the season 1 boxset.
I will be writing to Ms Savides again tomorrow (if I have time)
zantarous
17-01-2003, 14:04
I am highly dubious as to wheather Netter was involved in the PAL transfer of the DVD set, surly if he was and this came to his attention he would be pushing for a corrected disc, it is no secret the he and JMS are out spoken individuals.
As to the problem with the print, I think if like me you love the show (and I do love it, would even go as far as saying it the best piece of TV ever) then the few scratchs that there are won't bother you. And lets be honest it would cost WB an arm and a leg to clean up 110 episodes and we the devouted fans would have to pick up the bill.
jaminblack
17-01-2003, 19:08
Did the 5.1 remix's exists before the dvd release was planned, or were these produced in mind of the dvd release?. If it was produced for the dvd and they can be bothered to do a sound remix, I think they could at least pay someone to watch all the episodes to see if they look ok before mastering them.
Jamin
Originally posted by jaminblack
Did the 5.1 remix's exists before the dvd release was planned, or were these produced in mind of the dvd release?. If it was produced for the dvd and they can be bothered to do a sound remix, I think they could at least pay someone to watch all the episodes to see if they look ok before mastering them.
Jamin
I seem to remember them advertising the program with the 5.1 mix when it was on television so it was probably already there and not remixed.
Originally posted by zantarous
I am highly dubious as to wheather Netter was involved in the PAL transfer of the DVD set, surly if he was and this came to his attention he would be pushing for a corrected disc, it is no secret the he and JMS are out spoken individuals.
As to the problem with the print, I think if like me you love the show (and I do love it, would even go as far as saying it the best piece of TV ever) then the few scratchs that there are won't bother you. And lets be honest it would cost WB an arm and a leg to clean up 110 episodes and we the devouted fans would have to pick up the bill.
A few scratches ? Suggest you visit www.michaeldvd.com and read the review.
I estimate the cost of purchasing Series 1 to 5 will be in the region of £175 per head ( providing Warner does not hike up the price of Series 2, 3, 4 and 5 as a result of the success of Series 1. ) The devoted fan is already picking up the bill. Unfortunately all he/she is getting in return is a shoddy package.
zantarous
17-01-2003, 23:28
Originally posted by hnimmo
A few scratches ? Suggest you visit www.michaeldvd.com and read the review.
Been there done that, have discussed the subject to death on B5 boards (serach the archives at b5tv.com) and to be honest the scratchs go away (mostly) after a few episode.
What people need to take into account is that all these flaws probably existed before the DVD transfer happened but we are just used to watching on media that is not as clear as DVD. And the fact that B5 was a low budget affair and and was filmed on low quality film. Also some of the film stock was damaged while it was in storage, in the case of the pilot whole segment were destroyed that had to be reassembled.
And the most important factor is that (no matter how good we think the show is) B5 never has been or will be as big for WB as its other productions.
Shows such as Star Trek and Buffy have far bigger followings. B5 is small cookies for WB and not buying the series and complaining all the time will only make WB think there is no market for it.
Did the 5.1 remix's exists before the dvd release was planned
No the show was originally recorded in Dolby Surround the 5.1 mix was done for the box set. As far as I am aware TV shows are not broascast in 5.1 anywhere.
Originally posted by PaulaB
I seem to remember them advertising the program with the 5.1 mix when it was on television so it was probably already there and not remixed. It has the DD Surround logo in the opening credits IIRC, is that what your misremembering?
IMPORTANT
I am about to write back to Ms Savides and I wanted to make certain before I did that the R1 definitely did not suffer from the stretching SFX problems of the R2 in "And the Sky Full of Stars".
Could someone please confirm that this is the case.
Thanks
8-]
This is my current draft of the email. I don't want to send it until we can be 100% sure of the facts within and also would like to add more ideas from all of you guys 'n gals:
Dear Ms Savides
Thank you for your response with the Warner Brothers statement.
There is a discrepancy in the explanation given in your email, in that the problems with the episode "And the sky full of stars" only occurs in the R2 (Europe) version and not the R1 (USA). If the problems were due to the 4x3 shots having to be stretched into 16x9 for the DVD, then the same problem would have been seen in both R1 and R2 versions of the episode.
The way that 4x3 should be converted into 16x9 is for some of the image to be cropped (as was done on most of SFX shots in Babylon 5). The fact that this does not occur on the episode in question is hence due to the fact that the proper conversion procedure from 4x3 to 16x9 was not adhered to. This is not a side-effect of the conversion (as it does not occur on most of the series), it is entirely down to the wrong process having been used in the scenes in question.
I am attaching an image which shows how some scenes were converted properly and how some (as in "And the sky full of stars") were not.
I have had a lot of feedback from a great number purchasers of the Babylon 5 Series 1 DVD on this matter, and the general concensus is that the vast majority of us will be returning our R2 boxsets to the suppliers we purchased them from in order to get a full refund. We have already spoken to several suppliers and they have accepted the problem (and are aware of it) and have offered us full refunds. Many of us were considering purchasing the R1 version of B5 S1, until we discovered that it has other flaws. Many of us are not sure whether we will buy subsequent seasons either. I will quote two phrases which I heard from two other purchasers who are now returning their R2 boxsets. These sentiments sum up the general feeling amongst all the people I've spoken to:
"I am less than impressed with Warners efforts in respect of Babylon 5 Series 1 and have no wish to reward them for putting out such a shoddy package."
"I am not prepared to support a company who put out a sub standard package. Defeats the whole purpose of d.v.d. I am not looking for miracles from a low budget sci-fi show. I could have lived with the fact of the missing spaceships ( although it should never have been allowed to happen ) but the aspect ratio problem and the fact that no effort was made to clean up the print is, in my opinion, inexcusable."
I understand that Babylon 5 is not one of the big names in the WB lineup but this is no reason to pass off sub-standard products to the public and assume that they will just accept them.
When there have been problems like this with other studios the problems have been rectified and new discs issued so that their consumers were not let down.
It is up to you as a company to decide on what course of action you deem best.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
8-]
Just a suggestion, maybe replace fans in places with consumers? Corporations are always happy to disregard the views of the fans but you might not get so easily disregarded if they equate you with a consumer and therefore a bottemless pit of money!
Has it been decided that the problems that are apparently on the R1 DVDs ( See here: http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/sitereviews.cfm?ReleaseID=1412 ) are not on the R2 Release? Are these 2 releases not sourced from the same negatives?
Would someone please make a comparison of the same captures that are shown on the page I linked to and make sure these problems aren't on the R2 DVDs.
Quote about the R1 Release:
In almost every episode there were one or two scenes that looked extremely poor. I'm talking worse than VHS here, and they stand out like a sore thumb. I started paying attention to these scenes, and came to this conclusion: the prints for some scenes must have been damaged so badly that they couldn't be used, so they were forced to use footage from a tape source. Since the tape would have a 1.33:1 image, it must be blown up and cropped for the 1.78 aspect ratio.
Thanks.
Ericf
8-] - An excellent letter, I really wouldn't change much, except
Dear Ms Savides
Thank you for your response with the Warner Brothers statement.
There is a discrepancy in the explanation given in your email, in that the problems with the episode "And the sky full of stars" only occurs in the R2 (Europe) version and not the R1 (USA). If the problems were due to the 4x3 shots having to be stretched into 16x9 for the DVD, then the same problem would have been seen in both R1 and R2 versions of the episode.
The way that 4x3 should be converted into 16x9 is for some of the image to be cropped (as was done on most of SFX shots in Babylon 5). The fact that this does not occur on the episode in question is hence due to the fact that the proper conversion procedure from 4x3 to 16x9 was not adhered to. This is not a side-effect of the conversion (as it does not occur on most of the series), it is entirely down to the wrong process having been used in the scenes in question.
I am attaching an image which shows how some scenes were converted properly and how some (as in "And the sky full of stars") were not.
I have had a lot of feedback from a great number of Babylon 5 fans on this matter, and the general concensus is that the vast majority of us will be returning our R2 boxsets to the suppliers we purchased them from in order to get a full refund. We have already spoken to several suppliers and they have accepted the problem (and are aware of it) and have offered us full refunds. Many of us were considering purchasing the R1 version of B5 S1, until we discovered that it has other flaws. Many of us are not sure whether we will buy subsequent seasons either. I will quote a phrase which I heard from a fello-fan which sums up the general feeling amongst fans: ""
I understand that Babylon 5 is not one of the big names in the WB lineup but this is no reason to pass off sub-standard products to fans and assume that they will just accept them.
When there have been problems like this with other studios the problems have been rectified and new discs issued so that the fans were not let down.
It is up to you as a company do decide on what course of action you deem best.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
8-]
+ changes above regarding consumers :)
Thanks for all the hard work mate, I hope something can be done!
Latest draft of the email with Paul's and James' changes incorporated:
Dear Ms Savides
Thank you for your response with the Warner Brothers statement.
There is a discrepancy in the explanation given in your email, in that the problems with the episode "And the sky full of stars" only occurs in the R2 (Europe) version and not the R1 (USA). If the problems were due to the 4x3 shots having to be stretched into 16x9 for the DVD, then the same problem would have been seen in both R1 and R2 versions of the episode.
The way that 4x3 should be converted into 16x9 is for some of the image to be cropped (as was done on most of SFX shots in Babylon 5). The fact that this does not occur on the episode in question is hence due to the fact that the proper conversion procedure from 4x3 to 16x9 was not adhered to. This is not a side-effect of the conversion (as it does not occur on most of the series), it is entirely down to the wrong process having been used in the scenes in question.
I am attaching an image which shows how some scenes were converted properly and how some (as in "And the sky full of stars") were not.
I have had a lot of feedback from a great number purchasers of the Babylon 5 Series 1 DVD on this matter, and the general concensus is that the vast majority of us will be returning our R2 boxsets to the suppliers we purchased them from in order to get a full refund. We have already spoken to several suppliers and they have accepted the problem (and are aware of it) and have offered us full refunds. Many of us were considering purchasing the R1 version of B5 S1, until we discovered that it has other flaws. Many of us are not sure whether we will buy subsequent seasons either. I will quote two phrases which I heard from two other purchasers who are now returning their R2 boxsets. These sentiments sum up the general feeling amongst all the people I've spoken to:
"I am less than impressed with Warners efforts in respect of Babylon 5 Series 1 and have no wish to reward them for putting out such a shoddy package."
"I am not prepared to support a company who put out a sub standard package. Defeats the whole purpose of d.v.d. I am not looking for miracles from a low budget sci-fi show. I could have lived with the fact of the missing spaceships ( although it should never have been allowed to happen ) but the aspect ratio problem and the fact that no effort was made to clean up the print is, in my opinion, inexcusable."
I understand that Babylon 5 is not one of the big names in the WB lineup but this is no reason to pass off sub-standard products to the public and assume that they will just accept them.
When there have been problems like this with other studios the problems have been rectified and new discs issued so that their consumers were not let down.
It is up to you as a company to decide on what course of action you deem best.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
8-]
The pic that I will be attaching to the email is the one found at this link: http://lightning.snow-leopard.org.uk/Ugh.jpg
:thumbs: Looks good - sad thing is that "fan" equates in their mind to a geek who will buy the product whatever. Although you have already said you are sending the product back, the use of consumer emphasises that you are not prepared to take a sub-standard product.
BTW, I would not sign it 8-], might throw them a bit ;) :p
I just added 8-] for the Forums. My name will be on the actual one. :)
I also forgot the quotes on the earlier draft and have added them onto this one.
It is sad that fan is equated in that way by the corporations :(
Originally posted by 8-]
It is sad that fan is equated in that way by the corporations :( I suppose they just look on them as guarunteed revenue, regardless of the product.
Totally off-topic, but did you get your Star Trek box sets sorted out with HMV (and no, I never thought you were scamming, just pulling your leg). And what about Simon Schama's A History of Britain?
Originally posted by paul_caygill
I suppose they just look on them as guarunteed revenue, regardless of the product.
Totally off-topic, but did you get your Star Trek box sets sorted out with HMV (and no, I never thought you were scamming, just pulling your leg). And what about Simon Schama's A History of Britain? Yep - they quite happily swapped them for the seasons I wanted. There was no problem (I rang them before going in and they had a couple set aside behind the counter for me). I now have all 7 seasons and have to find the time to watch them. :eek:
Haven't gotten around to getting History of Britain yet - but I will.
Just finishing off season 2 myself, then have season 3 to watch. Hope that Amazon will be doing the rest cheap soon.
Originally posted by paul_caygill
Just finishing off season 2 myself, then have season 3 to watch. Hope that Amazon will be doing the rest cheap soon. Hopefully with DS9 coming out they will do TNG cheaper.
Will you be getting DS9? I probably won't. I watched it on and off over the years but it never appealed to my in the same way as TNG.
Still pondering that one. I did like DS9, but it will be another load of box sets to collect - at this rate I am going to need new shelving and fast.
Glad I started TNG though - watching the first 2 seasons, I never realised how many episodes I had never seen.
Originally posted by paul_caygill
Still pondering that one. I did like DS9, but it will be another load of box sets to collect - at this rate I am going to need new shelving and fast.
Glad I started TNG though - watching the first 2 seasons, I never realised how many episodes I had never seen. I have seen all of TNG over the years. Some of the eps are just fantastic. I am looking forward to "The Best of Both Worlds" and other excellent ones.
Latest draft of the email with Paul's and James' changes incorporated:
Dear Ms Savides
Thank you for your response with the Warner Brothers statement.
There is a discrepancy in the explanation given in your email, in that the problems with the episode "And the sky full of stars" only occurs in the R2 (Europe) version and not the R1 (USA). If the problems were due to the 4x3 shots having to be stretched into 16x9 for the DVD, then the same problem would have been seen in both R1 and R2 versions of the episode.
The way that 4x3 should be converted into 16x9 is for some of the image to be cropped (as was done on most of SFX shots in Babylon 5). The fact that this does not occur on the episode in question is hence due to the fact that the proper conversion procedure from 4x3 to 16x9 was not adhered to. This is not a side-effect of the conversion (as it does not occur on most of the series), it is entirely down to the wrong process having been used in the scenes in question.
I am attaching an image which shows how some scenes were converted properly and how some (as in "And the sky full of stars") were not.
I have had a lot of feedback from a great number purchasers of the Babylon 5 Series 1 DVD on this matter, and the general concensus is that the vast majority of us will be returning our R2 boxsets to the suppliers we purchased them from in order to get a full refund. We have already spoken to several suppliers and they have accepted the problem (and are aware of it) and have offered us full refunds. Many of us were considering purchasing the R1 version of B5 S1, until we discovered that it has other flaws. Many of us are not sure whether we will buy subsequent seasons either. I will quote two phrases which I heard from two other purchasers who are now returning their R2 boxsets. These sentiments sum up the general feeling amongst all the people I've spoken to:
"I am less than impressed with Warners efforts in respect of Babylon 5 Series 1 and have no wish to reward them for putting out such a shoddy package."
"I am not prepared to support a company who put out a sub standard package. Defeats the whole purpose of d.v.d. I am not looking for miracles from a low budget sci-fi show. I could have lived with the fact of the missing spaceships ( although it should never have been allowed to happen ) but the aspect ratio problem and the fact that no effort was made to clean up the print is, in my opinion, inexcusable."
I understand that Babylon 5 is not one of the big names in the WB lineup but this is no reason to pass off sub-standard products to the public and assume that they will just accept them.
When there have been problems like this with other studios the problems have been rectified and new discs issued so that their consumers were not let down.
It is up to you as a company to decide on what course of action you deem best.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
8-]
The pic that I will be attaching to the email is the one found at this link: http://lightning.snow-leopard.org.uk/Ugh.jpg
Please could people add thoughts/ideas.
I haven't actually bought the boxset, but I just thought I'd let you know that your page numbers are different to mine and I have the number of posts per page set to the default.
I think that letter is good and hope you can get somewhere as I really want to buy this boxset eventually.
Walrus Man
22-01-2003, 17:55
Originally posted by 8-]
Any more thoughts/ideas? Yes, the letter is great, so go on, send it!
8-]
Excellent letter. Cannot think of anything I would add to it.
While many people may be unsure if they will purchase subsequent seasons, I have no such problem. Season 1 is a sub standard package and without it, I will definitely not be purchasing Seasons 2, 3, 4 and 5. The only way Warner will get money out of me is if they provide decent cleaned up transfers.
I do not accept the argument put forward by some people on this thread who make excuses for Warner by stating that Babylon 5 was a low budget sci-fi program filmed using low budget film.
If companies such as Hong Kong Legends are prepared to invest time, effort and resources into restoring Hong Kong Films ( which do not appeal to a mass market ) there is no excuse for a company such as Warner putting out a shoddy package.
My advice to them is this. If you are not prepared to do a job properly, do not do it at all.
Thanks for the feedback guys.
I'll send it tomorrow, so if anyone has anything else to add please post by lunchtime tomorrow.
zantarous
22-01-2003, 22:49
Originally posted by hnimmo
I do not accept the argument put forward by some people on this thread who make excuses for Warner by stating that Babylon 5 was a low budget sci-fi program filmed using low budget film.
If companies such as Hong Kong Legends are prepared to invest time, effort and resources into restoring Hong Kong Films [/B]
The key word there is Film. It may be economical to clean up a 90 minute movie to do this for a series that
a) Was never a big sucess in the first place,
b) boamed big time in the US on Laserdisc
c) boamed big time in th US on VHS
Doesn't take a genius to figure out you dont spend hundreds of thousands restoring footage that might not sell very well. Also look at the first few season of Buffy and Star Trek (do a search on this forum) there transfers were also flawed.
The only thing I hold against WB is there inability to admit they have a problem with and the sky full of stars and fix it. Over all the boxset has been received very well by the B5 community and the unexpected high sales could lead to WB spending the extra money cleaning up the remaining seasons.
Email is being sent today, so if anyone has anything else to add please post by lunchtime.
We are 100% sure than the 14:3 16:9 stretch problem doesn't occur on the R1 "And the Sky full of Stars" aren't we?
Rollo Tomassi
23-01-2003, 11:40
Out of interest, has anyone thought to contact JMS directly about this?
I'm sure he wouldn't be happy to know a substandard version has been released :mad:
Rollo Tomassi
23-01-2003, 11:41
(sorry, double post)
Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi
Out of interest, has anyone thought to contact JMS directly about this?
I'm sure he wouldn't be happy to know a substandard version has been released :mad: Nobody here has (that we're aware of), but maybe some people in the US might have.
IMPORTANT
I really want the question of whether the R1 doesn't suffer from the probs in "And the sky full of stars" cleared up before I email Ms Savides as if this turns out to be wrong then the entire email will be ignored.
Would someone with the R1 please confirm or deny this?
Thanks
Originally posted by 8-]
IMPORTANT
I really want the question of whether the R1 doesn't suffer from the probs in "And the sky full of stars" cleared up before I email Ms Savides as if this turns out to be wrong then the entire email will be ignored.
Would someone with the R1 please confirm or deny this?
Thanks Can't help, but would like to ask - has anyone ever accused you of being too much of a perfectionist? ;) :p
Spooky_uk
23-01-2003, 18:06
perhaps an email to someone linked to this page will help..
http://www.visi.com/~wildfoto/b5spoil.html
Originally posted by paul_caygill
Can't help, but would like to ask - has anyone ever accused you of being too much of a perfectionist? ;) :p I just think that if the statement in the draft email (about the R1 not exhibiting the same problems as the R2) is wrong, that the impact of the email will be pretty much nonexistant, and we'll get no chance of any solution to our problem.
Originally posted by Spooky_uk
perhaps an email to someone linked to this page will help..
http://www.visi.com/~wildfoto/b5spoil.html I was hoping that someone here could give me an answer. I had a look at that site and wasn't too sure who to contact.
Spooky_uk
23-01-2003, 18:47
email the webmaster of the site explaining the problem and ask them to place an item on the news page and youll soon have some feedback regarding r1. pretty sure i saw an emaillink for somebody on it...
Originally posted by Spooky_uk
email the webmaster of the site explaining the problem and ask them to place an item on the news page and youll soon have some feedback regarding r1. pretty sure i saw an emaillink for somebody on it... I'm not sure if it will help as that is not just a B5 site, but I have emailed the webmaster and asked him to help if possible.
Someone here must have the R1! :(
Spooky_uk
23-01-2003, 19:59
Its anything to do with B5 + Crusade (in the B5 universe anyway) and JMS's other show Jeremiah.
Quite sure if the webmaster can help feedback will be forthcoming. sure it might kick a stir up over there too in case it is the same and noone has noticed yet...
anyways hope it yields some fruit...
A lot of it depends on whether the R1 also suffers from the same probs as the R2.
Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi
Out of interest, has anyone thought to contact JMS directly about this?
I'm sure he wouldn't be happy to know a substandard version has been released :mad:
I think the matter has been raised on the B5 moderated newsgroup which he reads, I cant remember if he has commented directly though.
I've posted a thread (http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=265912) requesting help over at DVD Talk. Maybe someone over there will be able to help us out.
Originally posted by phlebas
I've posted a thread (http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=265912) requesting help over at DVD Talk. Maybe someone over there will be able to help us out. There's already been a reply saying that the R1 doesn't suffer from the problem.
I'll wait and see what others say before sending the email.
Nice one phlebas :thumbs:
Originally posted by zantarous
The key word there is Film. It may be economical to clean up a 90 minute movie to do this for a series that
a) Was never a big sucess in the first place,
b) boamed big time in the US on Laserdisc
c) boamed big time in th US on VHS
Doesn't take a genius to figure out you dont spend hundreds of thousands restoring footage that might not sell very well. Also look at the first few season of Buffy and Star Trek (do a search on this forum) there transfers were also flawed.
The only thing I hold against WB is there inability to admit they have a problem with and the sky full of stars and fix it. Over all the boxset has been received very well by the B5 community and the unexpected high sales could lead to WB spending the extra money cleaning up the remaining seasons.
a) It may not have been a huge success but, as they made five seasons worth, I can only assume it was reasonably successful.
b) As far as I am aware, laserdisc was never a mass market success ( unlike dvd )
c) The cost of purchasing programs such as Babylon 5 Seasons 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 on VHS was prohibitive.
We are talking about a company who apparently still refuse to admit that there is a problem with 'And The Sky Full Of Stars' and whose reply to the missing spaceship scene was 'Video Operations have fixed this on the video master for any future release.' They can have my money when they clean up the print and fix the problems.
Right - we have had a few replies to the DVDTalk thread - http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=265912
Looks like the problem definitely doesn't occur on the R1.
Time to send the email I think.
I'll be sending it within the next few minutes.
EDIT - just sent it..... now to wait and see what sort of response we get. Depending on the response we may have to consider going down the Watchdog route and tell them that x of us will be complaining to Watchdog etc. We'll see.....
zantarous
24-01-2003, 15:55
So you are syaing if you were head of WB and looked at the figures for B5 and saw B5 made a loss on Laser Disc and VHS you would say so what lets spend loads of money restoring 20 hours worth of footage so it can lose us even more money.
If you don't want to but thats fine, however the sales have have proven that B5 has a huge following and now WB may spend the required money on sorting out the picture. But obviously if you spent more time enjoying the episodes then watching the picture you would not find it half as annoying.
As for the show lasting 5 seasons, it was because of the unique way it was funded. First of all B5 came in under bugget every year (something Star Trek knows nothing about). Most shows do not make money on their first run, usually it is in syndication that this happens, B5 however had to make back its money on its very first airing and due to the low budget it managed. I do not know the exact way it was funded but you can find all the info at www.B5tv.com.
No reply from WB today..... hopefully we'll get something back next week.
8-],
Slightly off topic but I thought you might want to have a look at this as well as I know you are a ST:TNG fan as well as me. Looks like there is a cock-up in Season 6 :brickwall
http://www.thedvdforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157141
My local WH Smiths did not have Season 4 (as I have £40 of clubcard points to cash in :eek:) but now wondering whether to go ahead with it - really torn now that I have the first 3. Also not sure what to do about DS9 that I have pre-ordered. That may well be getting cancelled now.
Damned studios - do they get some muppet off the street to master it and who the hell proofs these transfers?
Hi Paul
I saw that thread and read it with increasing trepidation which was then replaced with anger.
It doesn't sound as if there is a problem with S4 so you might as well go ahead and get it. WHS should be able to order it in for you.
Play sell S4 for £57.99 (not sure how much WHS sell it for)
Its £74.99 in the shops, so I will be getting it for £35. Wanted to get hold of it before I finish season 3 as I want to run Best of Both Worlds straight across - otherwise I might find myself weakening and digging out the VHS :eek:
You will be getting it for £35 (with your vouchers), but if you shop at WHS anyway, you might want to save the vouchers for stuff that they aren't more expensive for - e.g. magazines, when they do other DVD offers, phone voucher, etc.
The difference between Play and WHS is £17
Just a thought. :)
Originally posted by zantarous
If you don't want to but thats fine, however the sales have have proven that B5 has a huge following and now WB may spend the required money on sorting out the picture. But obviously if you spent more time enjoying the episodes then watching the picture you would not find it half as annoying.
Do not forget that I am part of that huge following. For your sake, and that of the many others who adore Babylon 5, I do hope Warner Brothers spend the required money and improve the quality of subsequent seasons.
However, I suspect the head of Warner will be looking at the successful sales figures for Season 1 and telling his associates there is little point in spending good money to improve Seasons 2, 3, 4 and 5. After all, why should they spend extra money to improve them when, despite its obvious faults, Season 1 sold so well.
As long as people are prepared to accept a sub standard product, you can rest assured companies such as Warner will be more than happy to supply same.
As soon as 8-] receives a reply from Warner, my copy of Season 1 will be returned to Amazon detailing the reason why and listing the response from Warner.
zantarous
27-01-2003, 20:08
8-] I don't know if this link has been mentioned but it has a fantastic comparison on r1 and r2 Sky Full of Stars http://home.iae.nl/users/starcat/b5atsfos/index.html
Originally posted by zantarous
8-] I don't know if this link has been mentioned but it has a fantastic comparison on r1 and r2 Sky Full of Stars http://home.iae.nl/users/starcat/b5atsfos/index.html
Well spotted. An excellent comparison between the Region 1 and Region 2 discs. It will be interesting to hear Warner's response. Probably along the lines of ' Video Operations have fixed this on the video master for any future release.'
Originally posted by zantarous
8-] I don't know if this link has been mentioned but it has a fantastic comparison on r1 and r2 Sky Full of Stars http://home.iae.nl/users/starcat/b5atsfos/index.html That's an excellent page. Thanks :thumbs:
Do you think that I should email Ms Savides again and include a link to the webpage with the comparisons?
Could be worth a try - whether she bothers to read it and can understand it is another matter .
Originally posted by 8-]
That's an excellent page. Thanks :thumbs:
Do you think that I should email Ms Savides again and include a link to the webpage with the comparisons?
Yes. It will alert them to the fact that more and more people are becoming aware of the problem with the Region 2 boxset and may force them into taking action to rectify same.
How about something like this:
Dear Ms Savides
Further to my email of 23/01/2003 I would like to draw your attention to the following webpage which further highlights the problems of the R2 Babylon 5 Series 1 DVD Boxset.
http://home.iae.nl/users/starcat/b5atsfos/index.html
I look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
8-]
:thumbs: Looks good.
As a side note, have you dropped a note to William Gallagher at the BBC? He always seems quite interested in these things, and maybe a bit of adverse publicity is needed to kick Warners up the arse.
Originally posted by 8-]
How about something like this:
Dear Ms Savides
Further to my email of 23/01/2003 I would like to draw your attention to the following webpage which further highlights the problems of the R2 Babylon 5 Series 1 DVD Boxset.
http://home.iae.nl/users/starcat/b5atsfos/index.html
I look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
8-]
Sounds good to me.
Thanks guys - I've just sent the email.
Paul - who is William Gallagher at the BBC? Obviously he's someone at the BBC, but more than that?
Originally posted by 8-]
Thanks guys - I've just sent the email.
Paul - who is William Gallagher at the BBC? Obviously he's someone at the BBC, but more than that? p579 on Ceefax, he is the guy that does their DVD news, and did some good stuff over the Gladiator fiasco.
Email address as listed on Ceefax is william.gallagher@bbc.co.uk
Could be worth a try, I'll see if I can get any more info on him off the BBC website.
Originally posted by paul_caygill
p579 on Ceefax, he is the guy that does their DVD news, and did some good stuff over the Gladiator fiasco.
Email address as listed on Ceefax is william.gallagher@bbc.co.uk
Could be worth a try, I'll see if I can get any more info on him off the BBC website. Thanks Paul. I'll wait and see what you dig up, and based on what WB say, I will contact him.
Originally posted by GarFra
Any word yet? Nothing yet I'm afraid.
Have had a look on the BBC website, and other than finding loads of reviews of films and DVDs by him, cannot find anything else. However, he is listed on p579 as their DVD man "DVD News" and is currently doing a load of stuff on the BTTF cock-up. His email address is listed at the bottom of each Ceefax page so I guess he is happy for people to contact him.
Sorry I could not find out any more, blame the BBC for having a badly laid-out website :(
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